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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 08:24am
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Im not being defensive, I just stated the facts and you replied!!!!
"Ask *any* Little League ball player if he would prefer to take a leadoff, and I can guarantee you the answer would be a resounding, "Yes!"" Ask them if they would like to go to Micky D's and I bet you will get a bigger yes too????????????? 
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 10:13am
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"Little League is really recreational ball"
Tell this to the kids that are trying to get into the Little League World Series. And if you ask me its the only TRUE World Series. So it being "RECREATIONAL" sadly mistaken
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 12:26pm
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Perception is reality
In some regions Little League ball is perceived as "inferior" to Babe Ruth or USSSA and vice versa. Neither one is right or wrong it is just a belief.
I guarantee that if Gerry Davis showed up at a local American Legion game wearing shorts, a ragged hat on backwards and dirty gear, he would be perceived as being a "dud". I think we can agree that this is not the case. We teach rookies the importance of looking the part, not because it makes them "better" umpires, but rather it creates a professional appearance and perception. David is not trying to say that LL is worse than USSSA, just relaying the "fact" that parents perceive LL as an inferior form of baseball.
__________________
Alan Roper Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 01:29pm
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We all have a job to do.
Why do we do what we do?
I've had the little guys (8-9 YEAR OLDS) say, "WOW!" when I show up with my polished shoes, numbered shirt, and clean hat. Kids deserve that. You've gotta love the game! Jerry
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 02:45pm
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With A passion
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 04:19pm
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Somebody is going to be the BEST recreational team. And that's what the Little League World Series determines. Put the BEST competitive team up against the BEST recreational team and I think the difference would be startling. This is especially true if the Little League team is forced to make the myriad of *additional* considerations that they have been protected from making by the very nature of their system of rules. Hey, I'm not trying to put down the Little League. I think it's a great program! I love baseball and I think anytime kids are out there playing this great game ... it's GREAT! Kids play T-ball because they really don't have the skills to hit a pitched ball. Kids play Coach Pitch because the players don't have the skills to pitch, nor do they have the batting skills to hit anything particularly challenging. I can only imagine WHY leadoffs are not allowed in Little League. Is it because of a similar notion that the pitchers, catchers, and fielders will be overtaxed? The players' baseball skills and instincts have not matured to the point where the game can not be played the way it was intended? That's fine. I accept that. As long as there is acceptance to the notion that there ARE kids out there who CAN play baseball the way it was intended. From my personal observations, at 11-yrs-old, it is *NOT* true that a batter walks ... steals 2nd without a play ... steals 3rd standing up ... and then scores on a passed ball. The Little League World Series has always been rather boring for me. I still watch it ... only because I love to watch ANY kind of baseball. I find myself mostly watching the umpires, though. It's the same thing every year. A few teams happen to be blessed with a dominating pitcher who mows down the opponents because he can throw the ball 70mph. He may even have a curve. They're in the World Series largely on the coat tails of their superstar pitcher, not necessarily because they have a super team in all other respects. Last year, when my boys were 10-yr-olds, they played in a tournament played under USSSA rules where a few hot shot Dizzy Dean League teams entered the fray. Apparently, there are not leadoffs until the ball crosses the plate, in Dizzy Dean. These kids had to make the adjustment. Although these little guys were not half bad ball players, it was clear they were completely overwhelmed by the dramatic increase in the complexity of the game. Their pitchers were balking ... their runners were getting picked off and thrown out stealing ... they were falling prey to some of the most basic defensive schemes imagineable (i.e. Fake to third and throw to first) ... and then it all came crumbling down on them. Their pitchers, who I'm sure could normally throw strikes, were so off balance and distracted, could hardly hit the side of a barn. The opposing runners wore their team out. In short, they were a little fish in a big pond. It was evident their coaches tried to give them a crash course in what to expect ... but it was not enough. You can draw it up on a chalkboard but you still have to EXPERIENCE it. You should have seen what lefthanded pitchers were doing to their runners at first. It was ugly. They'd never seen anything like it unless they've seen it on TV. One common mistake I noticed they continued to make that I directly attribute to the "Little League" system is that their infielders seemed hell bent on retiring the lead runner on all ground balls. Many of their throws were late causing EVERYBODY to be safe. They were not used to runners getting such a jump on the ball making force plays much more difficult. They were not good at deciding whether it was worth the risk of retiring the lead runner on a close play or going the more sure route of retiring the batter. In their world, retiring the lead runner was fairly simple and routine, considering he basically started ON the base when the ball was hit. They were not used to runners on base getting huge running starts. Given the opportunity, I'm sure these guys could play great baseball. But they've never had the opportunity ... and it showed. That's when they found out the harsh reality: Up 'til now, they've only been playing pseudo-baseball.
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Fri Jul 12, 2002, 10:05pm
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 09:19am
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"Put the BEST competitive team up against the BEST recreational team and I think the difference would be startling."
Why dont you just build yourself 9 robots that can play this game PERFECTLY, the way you evidently want it to be played at 11 years old. Did you son start walking when he was born? I have seen this over and over, its called the perfection sickness. These same kids that you have drilled to your perfect ideal ball player mentaliity, will be burnt out by the time they are 15. Why? Because they will know everthing about the game that is possible and it will be boring. Plus you have occupied so much of their time playing ball, they will sooner or latter want to make some time to do nothing. Not my Kid! The Little League system is by far not the best thing around, and it really does care more about their corporate sponsorships than the kids that play, however for the majority of the kids, it is a good system to develope ball players. Mabey it does'nt allow the kids to develope as fast as your "All Stars" but it least gives the kids an opppurtunity to be kids and not being drilled like boot camp at their young ages. Now tell me your not really interested in your son getting that big college scholorship and I will sell you some land in Florida. Remember this day. You will burn them out!!!!
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 09:50am
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Believe me, the points you raise regarding burning kids out are not lost upon most of the coaches and parents that live in the world of competitive ball. You have to be sensitive to the temperment of the player. If the player only has a casual interest in baseball (regardless of his talent), forcing him to "waste" his entire summer playing 60+ ballgames is certainly the path to burnout, I'll agree. But, in many cases, the players on the team are his FRIENDS! Being with his friends is what the player WANTS to do! Besides playing baseball, they swim together ... spend the night at each other's house ... ride bikes ... and go to movies. Would you say that a child who is extremely active in Boy Scouts and goes to every meeting ... attends all their activities ... is in risk of "burnout"? It is only burnout if it is burning them out. If the child rolls his eyes when Mom and Dad say, "Put on your cleats, you have practice in 15 minutes," then perhaps that child is showing signs of burnout. Believe it or not ... there kids out there who LOVE to play baseball. These kids thrive in the competitive environment. Playing only 15-20 baseball games in the 3 months they have off from school would be an outrage to many of these kids. It's what they LOVE to do! Admitedly, it's not for everyone. Do some kids not belong in the competitive environment? Certainly! It is such a trite criticism that "all" these kids are going to be burnt out by high school. And yet, *ALL* the truly great high school players come from the world of competitive baseball. No - that's not even true. Whether great or not, in this area, *ALL* the high school players come from the world of competitive baseball. I can not think of a single recreational walk-on. It just doesn't happen. It's all about the temperment of the player. For anybody to prevent an outstanding recreational player from playing competitive ball because they are ostensibly doing the player a "favor" by not allowing him to be burned out - could actually be denying that player what could possibly be the greatest experience of his life. This is particularly true if it seems the boy has a true passion for the sport. Can a player get burned out playing competitive baseball? Sure! But to pretend that it happens routinely is a gross overstatement. It happens, sure. But for every competitive ballplayer that is getting burned out ... there is a talented recreational player out there languishing in a sea mediocrity and being frustrated by his surroundings and who would thrive in another world. I think baseball at ALL levels is good! I'm not trying to be critical of ANY of them. I think the most important thing to do is *match* the player to the level of play that best suits his temperment. Do some parents make bad choices? Yes! Are *all* competitive players on the path to burnout? No!
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 01:32pm
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__________________
Jim Porter
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 03:55pm
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No, I think most people would readily admit that the number of young men playing at the recreational level far exceeds the number playing at the competitive level. And, as it should be. I would be surprised if it was any other way. Why do you think there are more MINOR leaguers than BIG leaguers. I never considered a competitive team an "all star" team. Rather, I just consider them a collection of young boys who have above average baseball skills who love the game enough to dedicate more than an average amount of time to the sport. They are the type of kids who may take private batting or pitching lessons in the off season. They don't put their glove on the top shelf of their closet when baseball season is over, only to blow the dust off it when the weather breaks. They're not *better* kids ... they're just more dedicated. They tend to be more intense. Baseball is *their* sport. It's usually their favorite sport. It's not just sport du jour for them. Of course this is a generalization. But generalizations exist for a reason ... because, they are generally true! Everybody has their niche in life. The world of baseball is no different. There is a level of baseball for everyone to enjoy! The group of boys I know would be bored to the very core of their souls if they were not allowed to take leadoffs ... if they couldn't pick runners off ... if the catcher would seldom have an opportunity to throw out a stealing runner ... or they could never execute a suicide squeeze. It's fun! It's the spice of life! It's what they see on TV and it's what they want to emulate. And they can DO it! All these kids that I know, at one time or another, have played a modified version of baseball. My boys played T-ball and LOVED it. But they were 5 and 6 years old at the time. My boys played coach pitch and LOVED it. But they were 7 and 8 years old at the time. Many of the players on the competitive teams were extracted out of the local recreational league, where some of them have restrictions regarding leadoffs, much like Little League or Dizzy Dean. They adapt. But the adaptation is a process. The reason these kids survive the transition is because, fundamentally, they are very talented baseball players. They can field ground balls, they can throw accurately, they can hit. I've seen the Little League World Series. Any competitive team would LOVE to have many of those pitchers. Those kids throw hard and they throw strikes. They would have to adapt to the complexity of holding runners ... but their level of talent would make that transition fairly easy. There are always competitive-caliber players in recreational leagues. And those are the teams you see in the Little League World Series.
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 06:50pm
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Your missing the point. To you, this is all about what the kids love. What about the responsibilty of the parents to offer the kids a varitiy of things to do, which helps in the development of life and not just sports. They play 60+ games in the summer, 25+ game in the fall, and three hitting and fielding camps or pitching camps in the winter. Do the kids love it? Sure, but if you are raising ballplayers then your on the right track. I thought you might be raising children. Sorry for the mix up.
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 07:44pm
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That is a tired and worn argument. I don't mean to be insulting, but that argument is generally the exclusive province of those who have no children, or children with little athletic ability or little drive to excel in sports. There are 365 days in a year. Let's say they play 65 games and have 30 practices. Many of their games are played as doubleheaders. So, I think it's fair to say that roughly 80 days of the year involve the playing of a baseball game. And, baseball, in itself, is an experience that deserves some time! Apparently, you think it is too much time. By the way, my twin sons play football during the football season and basketball during the basketball season. They play video games continously when they're not doing something on the computer. They swim ... ride bikes ... have friends spend the night ... and we go on family vacations. It's a vacuous argument.
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Sat Jul 13, 2002, 09:13pm
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Because you asked.
Oldest son played Four years of HS Varsity, Thats F O U R YEARS. Three years of D1 Ball and decided to be a Engineer. Daughter ran HS and College Track four years. Youngest son now officiates Jr A and USHL Hockey and is up and coming for the pro's Been There - Done That, Thank you
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