Never seen this before - Page 3

zm1283 · #31 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 12:44pm

Speaking of check swing appeals. I was in the A position a few weeks ago with a left-handed batter up. The pitch is a ball and the batter check swings. The defense is hollering to "check him, check him!". I can't hear my partner but I see him telling the catcher that he's not about to appeal that. The defensive team was in the first base dugout, so the coaches were right there. The acted like they couldn't figure out why we couldn't appeal that. I just said "Guys, I would be guessing if I called that".

On another note, I was at a AA game on Monday night. The home team's batter (left-handed) check swings and the PU points with his left hand and hammers the strike. The U3 was in the B spot so I knew the PU wasn't asking for help. The guys down the row from us (They were self-described umpiring experts) kept going on about "That guy can't see that, how can he appeal that?!" I was going to correct them, but then I remembered the thing about blissful ignorance.

bob jenkins · #32 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

Speaking of check swing appeals. I was in the A position a few weeks ago with a left-handed batter up. The pitch is a ball and the batter check swings. The defense is hollering to "check him, check him!". I can't hear my partner but I see him telling the catcher that he's not about to appeal that. The defensive team was in the first base dugout, so the coaches were right there. The acted like they couldn't figure out why we couldn't appeal that. I just said "Guys, I would be guessing if I called that".

On another note, I was at a AA game on Monday night. The home team's batter (left-handed) check swings and the PU points with his left hand and hammers the strike. The U3 was in the B spot so I knew the PU wasn't asking for help. The guys down the row from us (They were self-described umpiring experts) kept going on about "That guy can't see that, how can he appeal that?!" I was going to correct them, but then I remembered the thing about blissful ignorance.

You shouldn't be guessing (or need to guess) from A, and the umnpire in B certainly could have made a call had he been asked.

zm1283 · #33 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You shouldn't be guessing (or need to guess) from A, and the umnpire in B certainly could have made a call had he been asked.

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

In the second scenario, he wasn't asked. That was my point. The moron down the row thought the PU was asking for a checked swing appeal with his left hand, when in reality he was pointing at the swing for a swinging strike call. I know that he can rule if asked, but he wasn't.

Ump Rube · #34 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:13pm

Technically speaking you could be out in CF and make an appeal call. The overall driving idea being: did the batter strike at the pitch?

And yes, you can make a check swing call on a LHB from A. Especially if you saw the end-cap of the bat, then I would say the batter has struck at the pitch. (This would be a case where maybe the PU was blocked by F2 coming up and unable to see the swing/end of the swing).

[Edit: I am speaking in regards to 2-man mechanics. If it makes any difference.]

dash_riprock · #35 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:16pm

You can easily see a swing on a lefty from the A (better than you can from the B or C). I believe PBUC is now experimenting with PU going to the wing umpire (3-man) on check swing appeals.

archangel · #36 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

BU in A can absolutely make a good appeal call on a lefthanders check swing. Im curious where in any book it says otherwise.....

johnnyg08 · #37 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 04:55pm

those who say you can't probably haven't watched, played, or worked much baseball

Welpe · #38 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

If you are working a game under OBR, the PU must grant the check swing appeal if requested by the defense. Not true in Fed, but it is something to keep in mind.

I'm not sure if you do this or not, but it is a fairly common misconception that the bat must travel past the front of the plate to rule that a batter did not check his swing (that he "went"). All you have the judge is if the batter offered at the pitch.

SanDiegoSteve · #39 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

Had to rule many checked swings from A with a left-handed batter, and never once have I had a problem correctly ascertaining whether or not the batter made an attempt. Plus, I have never resorted to putting my foot up my partner's a$$ over it.

waltjp · #40 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 07:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

Which is why I include the following in my pregame when I'm working the bases -

If you want help on a check swing come to me regardless of where I'm positioned or who is batting and I'll give you what I got. I don't get crazy about it like some guys.

DG · #41 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 07:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Here is how the conversation should have gone:

PU: Before you start, we are not going to discuss balls and strikes.

Coach: Okay. I just wanted to know if you called that a swing or the pitch was a strike.

PU: I called it a swing.

Coach: Can I just ask that you get help.

PU: Coach, I called the swing, not the pitch. It's a strike and there is no appeal on a strike call.

You never, never allow an appeal of a strike call, no matter what rule set, how old the players or how polite the coach is. A strike is a strike and that is all there is to that!

Oh and the PU was an idiot for asking and the BU was a a$$hole for even responding at all!

I will shorten it up even further.

Me: no comment until he speaks
Coach: I just wanted to know if you called that a swing or the pitch was a strike.
Me: swing
Coach: Can I just ask that you get help.
Me: you just did and no

tballump · #42 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 11:09pm

I cannot believe there are umpires are getting to the district playoffs that are appealing a checked swing as the PU that they have already ruled was a swing. There is just too much information out there, not just on this forum, for this to happen. Here we go with that 'help call' get it right at all costs song and dance routine again.

Does anyone ever stick to their guns when they clearly see the call and make the call and it 'is not' a help situation? Too bad, if later on you learn on instant replay that you really missed the call. That is just part of the game. If there are calls and situations that let you get help, fine, but if you clearly see what happened, make the call and stand behind it. If you have to eject an upset coach, so be it, even if it is in the playoffs. Good chance his cherry has been popped already, and if not, oh well, there is always a first time. That appealing coach had to be laughing his a-- off on this one.

SethPDX · #43 (**permalink**) Sat May 23, 2009, 12:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp

Which is why I include the following in my pregame when I'm working the bases -

If you want help on a check swing come to me regardless of where I'm positioned or who is batting and I'll give you what I got. I don't get crazy about it like some guys.

I always tell my partner, "give me what you have" as PU. If I'm BU I'll tell my PU I'm giving what I have. And no way are we using any secret code like, "If I say 'he didn't go, did he?' I want you to back up my call." Fortunately I see fewer and fewer guys who "get crazy about it."

zm1283 · #44 (**permalink**) Sat May 23, 2009, 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You can easily see a swing on a lefty from the A (better than you can from the B or C).

Then why in 3-man with a left handed batter up and R1 does the PU not check with the U1 and instead checks with U3 who is in the middle? If the U1 can see a lefty's check swing better, why bother checking with the guy in the middle?

zm1283 · #45 (**permalink**) Sat May 23, 2009, 12:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

those who say you can't probably haven't watched, played, or worked much baseball

And those who make blanket statements are often wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethPDX

I always tell my partner, "give me what you have" as PU. If I'm BU I'll tell my PU I'm giving what I have. And no way are we using any secret code like, "If I say 'he didn't go, did he?' I want you to back up my call." Fortunately I see fewer and fewer guys who "get crazy about it."

I don't disagree with this at all. If I go to my partner, I want him to give me what he has. But, most veteran guys I have worked with will not come to me in A with a left handed batter up in the first place. I just don't see how you can see that all that well since the batter has his back to you and unless he REALLY offered at the pitch (Which should be obvious and be called a strike by the PU to begin with), the bat won't be visible very well. Maybe it will come with experience.