Never seen this before

harmbu · #1 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:19am

I was at a district championship game last night and saw something I though was interesting. FED rules. In the top of the sixth inning, B1 attempted to check his swing on an 0-1 pitch. PU pointed and said he swung. The visiting coach asked the count and was informed that it was 0-2. He called time and approached the PU. I was sitting right behind the backstop and heard the following exchange.

PU: Before you start, we are not going to discuss balls and strikes.

Coach: Okay. I just wanted to know if you called that a swing or the pitch was a strike.

PU: I called it a swing.

Coach: Can I just ask that you get help.

PU: I will if I am not sure about a swing.

Coach: I mean on that pitch. Can you appeal.

PU: Sure.

At this point I am fully expecting the BU to confirm that it was a swing. PU points and BU give the safe signal. PU immediately shows the count as 1-1 and the game resumes. Don't know if this was the proper procedure, but I am sure it is as the PU was our local rules interpreter.

jdmara · #2 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:24am

At least around here, it seems to be a personal choice for a PU to appeal to the BU on an attempted check swing that the PU concludes he did swing. Others around here will pregame that "if I come to you on a check swing, agree with what I called". I, personally, don't have a problem going to the BU if I'm in doubt. If they say something that I didn't, I want them to make the correct call (not the call that is going to save my butt).

This situation does happen on occasion but I don't believe that I've ever appealed on a swing I said he did.

-Josh

HokieUmp · #3 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara

At least around here, it seems to be a personal choice for a PU to appeal to the BU on an attempted check swing that the PU concludes he did swing. Others around here will pregame that "if I come to you on a check swing, agree with what I called". I, personally, don't have a problem going to the BU if I'm in doubt. If they say something that I didn't, I want them to make the correct call (not the call that is going to save my butt).

Whaaaaaa?

Say it with me, now:

"Check swing strikes are not appeal-able."

scarolinablue · #4 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 02:41pm

Had this scenario happen to me in the playoffs this year, albeit on a bunt. OC wanted me to appeal, I informed him there was no appeal on a strike called due to an attempt. End of discussion, and we moved on...

GA Umpire · #5 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

Had this scenario happen to me in the playoffs this year, albeit on a bunt. OC wanted me to appeal, I informed him there was no appeal on a strike called due to an attempt. End of discussion, and we moved on...

There is no appeal on a strike called, period.

mattmets · #6 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 03:24pm

There's also the story Ron Luciano told in one of his books. Working with Emmett Ashford at first, Ron called a swinging strike on a check-swing. When the offensive manager told him to get help, Ron did, and Emmett affirmed the call. Luciano's response to the manager? "There- now you've got it in black and white."

I know how most here feel about Luciano, but that was his take on the sitch.

UmpJM · #7 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmbu

...
Don't know if this was the proper procedure, but I am sure it is as the PU was our local rules interpreter.

harmbu,

That was absolutely NOT proper procedure.

There is no appeal on a pitch the PU ruled that the batter offered on.

JM

jdmara · #8 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:37am

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the discussion but I believe the coach is asking to appeal the check swing for the last ball pitched, not whether the pitch was a strike. It's not really an everyday appeal but if it's done civilly, why not...

-Josh

Ump Rube · #9 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:46am

An appeal can only be asked on a swing that the PU has considered check and the pitch was ruled a ball. You cannot appeal a swing that has been considered a strike. So here is the thought pattern:

1. Was the pitch a strike? If yes: STRIKE, if no: continue to #2.
2. Did the batter strike at the pitch? If yes: STRIKE, if no: continue to #3.
3. Rule pitch a BALL. If coach appeals swing only, continue to #4.
4. Ask BU if player struck at ball. If yes: STRIKE, if no: ball stands.

bob jenkins · #10 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the discussion but I believe the coach is asking to appeal the check swing for the last ball pitched, not whether the pitch was a strike. It's not really an everyday appeal but if it's done civilly, why not...

-Josh

Because it's contrary to the rules. Only a "no swing" can be appealed. A "swing" cannot.

The PU kicked it; the BU kicked it; the opposing coach kicked it; and the requesting coach chuckles his way back to the dugout.

johnnyg08 · #11 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:55am

So the response to the requesting coach would be: You can't request appeal on a pitch that I called a swinging strike. I suppose this should be pregamed esp if you're working w/ somebody new or "suspect"

bob jenkins · #12 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

So the response to the requesting coach would be: You can't request appeal on a pitch that I called a swinging strike. I suppose this should be pregamed esp if you're working w/ somebody new or "suspect"

This would be about number 4768 on my list of things to pre-game. Heck, you may as well pregame "I signal outs with my right hand -- how do you do it?"

jdmara · #13 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Because it's contrary to the rules. Only a "no swing" can be appealed. A "swing" cannot.

The PU kicked it; the BU kicked it; the opposing coach kicked it; and the requesting coach chuckles his way back to the dugout.

There is probably a reason I've never done it but if Bob says it's incorrect procedure, I guess I'll have to jump to the other side of the fence on this topic

-Josh

Ump Rube · #14 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 11:10am

I guess I am not good enough to take me at my word. I even gave you a list. And this is how you treat me? By taking the word of some "moderator" that has like 7K posts? Fine, fine. But don't come crawling back to me when this "Bob" character turns his back on you.

(

)

Blue37 · #15 (**permalink**) Thu May 21, 2009, 10:52am

I was PU in a three-man tournament game in anouther part of the state last week, and the crew chief (who was U1) said during the pregame discussion, "Don't hesitate to ask for help if you rule the batter went, and the coach is giving you grief." I was flabergasted as I had never heard anything like this before, so I asked for clarification. He said they (he and U3) would echo my call of strike, just to help get the coach off my back.

My training was: If you know he went, call the strike. If you are not sure, go for help without being asked. If you say he did not, go for help if asked. I am not going to call the swing unless I am sure he went, and once I call it, I am able to take the heat.

Is going for help after calling a swing just to appease the coach something gaining acceptance?