How can I prove this?

[bossman72]

Let's break down your example to show what you can do:


#2 Jones is batting for #25 Smith.

--Jones is on 2nd. Smith enters to pinch run. (DH is now terminated and Jones has been out of the game once).

--Jones re-enters. (Smith has now been out of the game once and has re-entry eligibility).

--Smith re-enters for Jones (Jones is now done for the day).

--Fred substitutes for Smith (Smith is now done for the day).


But as the original poster noted, there's no concrete evidence in the rule or case book to show you can do this.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Let's break down your example to show what you can do:


#2 Jones is batting for #25 Smith.

--Jones is on 2nd. Smith enters to pinch run. (DH is now terminated and Jones has been out of the game once).

--Jones re-enters. (Smith has now been out of the game once and has re-entry eligibility).

--Smith re-enters for Jones (Jones is now done for the day).

--Fred substitutes for Smith (Smith is now done for the day).


But as the original poster noted, there's no concrete evidence in the rule or case book to show you can do this.

Starters may leave the game once and subsequently re-enter. Smith was in the game when he went in to run for Jones, thereby eliminated DH. He leaves. He can re-enter. How much concrete do we need?

[David B]

Originally Posted by DG

Starters may leave the game once and subsequently re-enter. Smith was in the game when he went in to run for Jones, thereby eliminated DH. He leaves. He can re-enter. How much concrete do we need?

Exactly. DH is a starter. We always teach if you have the DH you have 10 starters. Go from there.

Actually had a coach do this a few weeks ago and it worked.

Thanks
David

[SAump]

I have no argument if a substitute player fills in as pinch runner for the DH.
I would allow the DH to return to DH.

BRD 62 Batter: DH: Player returns offensively
FED: A player may leave the line-up and return offensively and/or defensively under the reentry rule. (3-1-3)

Connecting the dots, can both of them continue in the ballgame in their previous roles?

BRD 67 Batter: DH: Pinch hitter/runner for DH
FED: A pinch hitter or pinch runner for the DH becomes the DH. (3-1-4; 3-1-4 b) Except: The DH is terminated if the player for whom the DH currently hits (or any player for whom he has batted), pinch hits or pinch runs for him. (3-1-4a and c).

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

I have no argument if a substitute player fills in as pinch runner for the DH.
I would allow the DH to return to DH.

BRD 62 Batter: DH: Player returns offensively
FED: A player may leave the line-up and return offensively and/or defensively under the reentry rule. (3-1-3)

BRD 67 Batter: DH: Pinch hitter/runner for DH
FED: A pinch hitter or pinch runner for the DH becomes the DH. (3-1-4; 3-1-4 b) Except: The DH is terminated if the player for whom the DH currently hits (or any player for whom he has batted), pinch hits or pinch runs for him. (3-1-4a and c).

Connecting the dots, can both of them continue in the ballgame in their previous roles?

No, and there's no requirement stating that they have to do so.

[UmpJM]

Let me sum this up...

The rules and case plays clearly state that the coach's desire to substitute the "player being batted for" for the DH is perfectly legal.

This would, in fact, terminate the role of the DH for that team. But, not the player who was fulfilling that role. As a starter, he has left the game once, and has one re-entry remaining.

The player being batted for is also a starter and has not yet left the game.

Everyone but SAUmp agrees with this.

If that doesn't prove it, I don't know what does.

JM

[SAump]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Let me sum this up...

The rules and case plays clearly state that the coach's desire to substitute the "player being batted for" for the DH is perfectly legal.

No argument here.

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

This would, in fact, terminate the role of the DH for that team. But, not the player who was fulfilling that role. As a starter, he has left the game once, and has one re-entry remaining.

This is where the problem lies. The old DH may return to the ballgame and occupy the same place in the line-up as the new DH. But the role of the old DH role has been terminated in the OP.

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

The player being batted for is also a starter and has not yet left the game.

This guy became the player {already in the game defensively} now in the offensive line-up in place of the terminated DH. If the DH is to return to that spot, wait the DH is terminated. That is now impossible. If the player who was DH returns to his spot in the lineup, the replacement DH must leave the game. Otherwise, FED rules now allow the terminated DH role to become reprised. Huh?

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Everyone but SAUmp agrees with this.
If that doesn't prove it, I don't know what does.
JM

I'm just asking someone to eliminate some of the the pronouns and state exactly how the termination of the DH role was later reprised by exactly the same two starting players?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by SAump

I get lost there.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. Davis DH for James
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4
10. James 1

Davis reaches base and James PR for him, lineup card now looks like this, James must bat in the 4 spot as he is running for his DH who batted there. Notice only 9 players as DH has been eliminated for remainder of game. Davis is a starter that has now left for the first time and James who he was batting for is still in the game as the starting pitcher.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. James 1 (PR for DH Davis)
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

Davis now reenters for the first time but now must play defense too and still has to bat in the 4 spot. He replaces James in the lineup and is inserted as the first basemen and Able moves to pitch. James has now left for the first time from his position as a starting pitcher and retains reentry rights.

1. Able 1
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. Davis 3
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

James now reenters, as pitcher moving Able back to first, and must do so for Davis in the 4 spot. Davis is now done for the day as he has exited a second time.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. James 1
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

Does this help anyone understand that wasn't to clear?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

[/LIST]Davis reaches base and James PR for him, lineup card now looks like this, James must bat in the 4 spot as he is running for his DH who batted there. Notice only 9 players as DH has been eliminated for remainder of game. Davis is a starter that has now left for the first time and James who he was batting for is still in the game as the starting pitcher. Davis now reenters for the first time but now must play defense too and still has to bat in the 4 spot. He replaces James in the lineup and is inserted as the first basemen and Able moves to pitch. James has now left for the first time from his position as a starting pitcher and retains reentry rights.
[/LIST]James now reenters, as pitcher moving Able back to first, and must do so for Davis in the 4 spot. Davis is now done for the day as he has exited a second time. Does this help anyone understand that wasn't to clear?
[/FONT]

Ah. Can't argue that. Thanks.
Dumb me was looking at them back in the game at the same time.
Your explanation shows how it is possible to meet both criteria.

[johnnyg08]

so basically if he re-enters in the same spot in the lineup, for who was the previous DH, he can do that...but they can't re-enter him in a different spot in the lineup?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

so basically if he re-enters in the same spot in the lineup, for who was the previous DH, he can do that...but they can't re-enter him in a different spot in the lineup?

By DHing for James, Davis and James are locked into the 4th spot in the batting order for that particular game.

[johnnyg08]

okay, that makes sense...so in a sense, they're still locked into each other because they were connected to the DH