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-   -   out of the batters box (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53248-out-batters-box.html)

bob jenkins Sat May 16, 2009 07:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpTTS43 (Post 602463)
The official interpretation I received from JE is this. When a batter has one foot on the ground completely out of the box, he is considered out of the box. Being contacted by a fair batted ball results in an out. Anything else, he is considered in the box and the result is a foul ball.

There's a FED case play to this exact effect.

UMP25 Sat May 16, 2009 09:24pm
This would be an obvious example of when FED is much clearer than is OBR.

UMP25 Sat May 16, 2009 09:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 602657)
But I would not be splitting hairs if I do point out that those words do matter if one were to look up the exact definition of a fair or foul batted ball.

The correct ruling regards a batted ball redirecting from the ground into the B/R or B/R's bat. It is ruled a foul ball just prior to hitting the B/R outside of the batter's box in these situations. This is the case of the swinging shot directly into the B/R's lower left leg while over fair territory.

The B/R is ruled out much more often for running into a fair "bunted" ball bounding in front of the plate. The batter's box is not a refuge and He does not have the right to a direct path to the nearest base through the bounding baseball. The runner must avoid contact with the batted ball. The same ruling would apply to any runner contacting a baseball while over fair territory.
I'm not disputing the definition of fair or foul ball. I just pointed out the official interpretation of it being a foul ball when it hits the batter in that portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory (13% of the box is).

UmpTTS43 Sun May 17, 2009 01:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 602658)
There's a FED case play to this exact effect.
Excellent.

Bob,

Could you please give me the case number? I have one duck that wants to get out of line.

bob jenkins Sun May 17, 2009 07:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpTTS43 (Post 602705)
Excellent.

Bob,

Could you please give me the case number? I have one duck that wants to get out of line.

I don't have the books handy, so I'll respond under the spirit of "teach a man to fish...". The batter has hit the ball, so he's a BR. The "A BR is out when ..." rule is 8-4-1. So, I'd look at cases 8.4.1

johnnyg08 Sun May 17, 2009 09:05am
I'm going to read until FED Rule 5,7,8 for FED...somebody else take OBR...

The Dead Ball portion of FED doesn't tell us a whole lot.

FED p. 46, 7-3-ART 2 states that a batter shall not hit the ball fair or foul while either foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box or touching home plate.

Case 7.3.2 Sitch A, Case 7.3.2 Sitch C,

bob jenkins Sun May 17, 2009 09:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 602719)
I'm going to read until FED Rule 5,7,8 for FED...somebody else take OBR...

The Dead Ball portion of FED doesn't tell us a whole lot.

FED p. 46, 7-3-ART 2 states that a batter shall not hit the ball fair or foul while either foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box or touching home plate.

Case 7.3.2 Sitch A, Case 7.3.2 Sitch C,

That's for batting the ball while out of the box. The OP is for being hit by the batted ball. Completely different.

johnnyg08 Sun May 17, 2009 09:39am
Bob, you're right. I couldn't find a case play that describes the OP play. I'll keep playing though.

bob jenkins Sun May 17, 2009 09:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 602731)
Bob, you're right. I couldn't find a case play that describes the OP play. I'll keep playing though.
Apparently, "teach a man to fish ..." means baiting the hook, casting the line, reeling in the fish, gutting it, filleting it and cooking it. Lah me.

johnnyg08 Sun May 17, 2009 09:41am
I don't think I could look the coach in the eye w/ a straight face and tell him that "well, you know, 13% of the batter's box is in fair territory...therefore..."

UMP25 Sun May 17, 2009 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 602733)
I don't think I could look the coach in the eye w/ a straight face and tell him that "well, you know, 13% of the batter's box is in fair territory...therefore..."
Neither could I. I mentioned that more so as a slightly humorous take on the whole batter's box situation. Plus, Jaksa himself explained that in class at umpire school. (You had to be there. Jaksa was kind of a brainiac/nerdy guy, but in a good sense.)

bniu Sun May 24, 2009 10:41am
my understanding of this rule is this:

IF the ball never touches the batter: Then the ball can be ruled fair if it stops in the upper corners of the batter's box that lies in fair territory.

IF the ball touches the batter:

Case 1: Batter is not COMPLETELY outside of his batter's box, then it is a dead ball and an automatic strike except for the fact that the automatic strike CANNOT be Strike 3.

Case 2: Batter is completely outside of his batter's box, then he's out.

And no, the other batter's box does not count. Batter is only protected while inside the box that he's using.

yawetag Sun May 24, 2009 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bniu (Post 604344)
Case 1: Batter is not COMPLETELY outside of his batter's box, then it is a dead ball and an automatic strike except for the fact that the automatic strike CANNOT be Strike 3.
Wouldn't that be the same as a foul ball?

bniu Mon May 25, 2009 12:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag (Post 604433)
Wouldn't that be the same as a foul ball?
it is the same as a foul ball but it's not a foul ball. It's a subtlety that a veteran umpire pointed out to me because we're supposed to yell "Dead Ball" instead of "Foul Ball" b/c it's not technically a foul ball. It's a dead ball strike except that it cannot count as strike 3.

bob jenkins Mon May 25, 2009 07:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bniu (Post 604445)
it is the same as a foul ball but it's not a foul ball. It's a subtlety that a veteran umpire pointed out to me because we're supposed to yell "Dead Ball" instead of "Foul Ball" b/c it's not technically a foul ball. It's a dead ball strike except that it cannot count as strike 3.
I have to admit that distinction is too subtle for me. A foul ball is also "a dead ball strike except that it cannot count as strike 3." (assuming it's not a bunt, of course).


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