out of the batters box
 

B1 bunts the ball down the first base line. as he starts off for first, the ball bounces straight up and hits the batter.

when is a player out of the batters box, so he could be called out instead of a foul ball ?

when one foot, completely outside the box, touches the ground ?!

regards

When a fair batted ball hits the batter in fair territory, we have a dead ball, batter's out, runners return to TOP base. However, if the ball hits him in the batter's box, even that small portion that is technically within fair territory (13% of the box is), it's generally called a foul ball.

Now, one must understand exactly what is meant by hits "him" in the batter's box. You focus on whether the part of the body that is hit by the ball is in fair territory when hit. If so, then it's interference and dead ball, etc. If the ball hits a part of his body that is in the box or in foul territory, then it's a foul ball.

Example: Batter bunts the ball, and as he is leaving the box (his right leg is planted on the ground outside the box in fair territory), the ball comes up and hits him in the left foot, which is still inside the box. This is a foul ball.

In short, pay attention to where the part of the body that was hit was situated when it was hit by the ball.

ok, i think i got it.

thanks a lot !

The official interpretation I received from JE is this. When a batter has one foot on the ground completely out of the box, he is considered out of the box. Being contacted by a fair batted ball results in an out. Anything else, he is considered in the box and the result is a foul ball.

Which seems to conflict with the ruling from other sources. It also conflicts with the notion of where the ball is when it contacts a runner.

Stuff to ponder...

* Batter hits the ball into the dirt right in the batter's box. Ball comes up and hits him while he's still in the box but in the part of the box that's in fair territory. How many guys would call this a foul ball? An out?

* Batter hits the ball into the dirt in front of him. As he's running to leave the box, the ball bounces up and hits him while he's still in that part of the box that's in fair territory, but his right foot is out of the box. Who would call this foul? Who would call him out?

* Batter hits a ball that just dies in the dirt. It spins on the ground and is lying in the box in the part that's in fair territory. Batter's running to first but in so doing steps on the ball with his foot while his other foot is (a) also still in the box or (b) outside the box on the ground. Who would call this a foul ball in (a) or (b)? Who would call him out in (a) or (b)?

Decisions, decisions. ;)

Classic soiled stick problem
 

Another classic and oft repeated question. And a chapter in the Excrement Covered Stick book.

I ain't buying some of the other analysis, regardless of the physics.

On this play, if ANY part of that batter is still in the batters box, then this is a FOUL BALL. Kill it, back to bat. Why try to play surveyer or need to triangulate.

Oh look a stick! This ends covered in DOO, this end is clean! What ever should I do?

And if you rule that the batter had completely LEFT the box and is then hit by batted ball in fair territory, you will kill this play, rule him out, and return other runners.

Thank you. Unless he is OBVIOUSLY way out of the box, call it foul and sell the crap out of it.

No need to split frickin' hairs on a play like this.

Very funny post. And accurate!!! See, flowerboy, I doo have a sense of humor!:D

Who's splitting hairs? Your initial comment said call it based on where X part of his body is when it gets hit. That's incorrect and was pointed out by mike and dash.

No it's not incorrect, and my comment about splitting hairs was referring to what the poster earlier had said, not the OP.

I understand avoiding the brown end of the stick. However, when it is obvious the batter is out of the box and is hit with a fair ball, I use Jim Evans' interpretation.

[QUOTE=UMP25;602527]No it's not incorrect,QUOTE]


I'm not arguing about it - yours are the only posts that say anything about where some given part of the body is when that part of the body gets hit. Nothing in the rule book says anything about that. It breaks down when a batter is no longer in the batter's box, period.

Except that explanation refers to when he hits an illegally batted ball and how to correctly interpret "out of the batter's box." For batter interference when he hits the ball fair and the ball hits him in fair territory, there's nothing said about being in or out of the box. In fact, let's take a look at the very succint wording of the rule:

6.05 - A batter is out when:

(g) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder

Note that it says "his fair ball." When a batter hits a ball that contacts him in the batter's box, we, by official interpretation, rule it a foul ball. So how can this both be a foul ball and, according to what you say JE says, also be a fair ball/batter's out? It can't.

The word I received from official sources was as I explained earlier. If his fair batted ball hits him in the box, it's a foul ball; if it hits him outside the box, it's interference, dead, etc. When I double-checked on the in the box/out of the box explanation, I was told, "wherever that part of his body was when hit determines whether he is out or if it is a foul ball."

Technically correct?
 

But I would not be splitting hairs if I do point out that those words do matter if one were to look up the exact definition of a fair or foul batted ball.

The correct ruling regards a batted ball redirecting from the ground into the B/R or B/R's bat. It is ruled a foul ball just prior to hitting the B/R outside of the batter's box in these situations. This is the case of the swinging shot directly into the B/R's lower left leg while over fair territory.

The B/R is ruled out much more often for running into a fair "bunted" ball bounding in front of the plate. The batter's box is not a refuge and He does not have the right to a direct path to the nearest base through the bounding baseball. The runner must avoid contact with the batted ball. The same ruling would apply to any runner contacting a baseball while over fair territory.

There's a FED case play to this exact effect.

This would be an obvious example of when FED is much clearer than is OBR.

I'm not disputing the definition of fair or foul ball. I just pointed out the official interpretation of it being a foul ball when it hits the batter in that portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory (13% of the box is).

Excellent.

Bob,

Could you please give me the case number? I have one duck that wants to get out of line.

I don't have the books handy, so I'll respond under the spirit of "teach a man to fish...". The batter has hit the ball, so he's a BR. The "A BR is out when ..." rule is 8-4-1. So, I'd look at cases 8.4.1

I'm going to read until FED Rule 5,7,8 for FED...somebody else take OBR...

The Dead Ball portion of FED doesn't tell us a whole lot.

FED p. 46, 7-3-ART 2 states that a batter shall not hit the ball fair or foul while either foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box or touching home plate.

Case 7.3.2 Sitch A, Case 7.3.2 Sitch C,

That's for batting the ball while out of the box. The OP is for being hit by the batted ball. Completely different.

Bob, you're right. I couldn't find a case play that describes the OP play. I'll keep playing though.

Apparently, "teach a man to fish ..." means baiting the hook, casting the line, reeling in the fish, gutting it, filleting it and cooking it. Lah me.

I don't think I could look the coach in the eye w/ a straight face and tell him that "well, you know, 13% of the batter's box is in fair territory...therefore..."

Neither could I. I mentioned that more so as a slightly humorous take on the whole batter's box situation. Plus, Jaksa himself explained that in class at umpire school. (You had to be there. Jaksa was kind of a brainiac/nerdy guy, but in a good sense.)

my understanding of this rule is this:

IF the ball never touches the batter: Then the ball can be ruled fair if it stops in the upper corners of the batter's box that lies in fair territory.

IF the ball touches the batter:

Case 1: Batter is not COMPLETELY outside of his batter's box, then it is a dead ball and an automatic strike except for the fact that the automatic strike CANNOT be Strike 3.

Case 2: Batter is completely outside of his batter's box, then he's out.

And no, the other batter's box does not count. Batter is only protected while inside the box that he's using.

Wouldn't that be the same as a foul ball?

it is the same as a foul ball but it's not a foul ball. It's a subtlety that a veteran umpire pointed out to me because we're supposed to yell "Dead Ball" instead of "Foul Ball" b/c it's not technically a foul ball. It's a dead ball strike except that it cannot count as strike 3.

I have to admit that distinction is too subtle for me. A foul ball is also "a dead ball strike except that it cannot count as strike 3." (assuming it's not a bunt, of course).

Yeah, I started wondering how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. :rolleyes:

I thought we were never supposed to yell "Dead Ball," unless we were conducting a funeral for the baseball.:confused:

By definition and by rule, it is not an "automatic strike." In fact, it's not a strike period. Tell your so-called veteran umpire he's full of it. Of what is he a veteran and in what world does he umpire? It's either a foul ball or fair ball/runner's out. It's not a strike, subtle differences between that and foul ball notwithstanding.

It would benefit you to understand this so you don't get confused on future similar rulings.

Was that a veteran softball umpire? We don't use "dead ball" in baseball. If it's not a foul ball, call "Time."

This is the...
 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/deadball.gif
...SIGNAL FOR DEAD BALL

IN CRICKET