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-   -   Giving Game Fees back (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53056-giving-game-fees-back.html)

johnnyg08 Mon May 04, 2009 01:30pm
we get 1/2 game fee for showing up

johnnyg08 Mon May 04, 2009 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 599636)
but no one even considered picking up a telephone and notifying the umpires?
classic example.

Kevin Finnerty Mon May 04, 2009 01:39pm
Same here. But the indignity is infuriating.

I have never done anything else in life where I am taken to such advantage. And I have a daughter in college! Even she appreciates me more.

johnnyg08 Mon May 04, 2009 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 599643)
Same here. But the indignity is infuriating.

I have never done anything else in life where I am taken to such advantage. And I have a daughter in college! Even she appreciates me more.

Yep, when you walk out of the stadium and you hear "great game" or "great job" from obviously the winning team fans, we have to learn to not get too high on the "compliments" and to not get too low on the negative feedback...becasue they'll turn on you in a heartbeat. Not that we're out there to make friends, but it is a thankless hobby...that's for sure...and yes, even though we get paid 1/2 game fee of whatever...it is a punch in the gut to show up when nobody chose to let you know..but heaven forbid they're ready to play and for whatever reason you're 3-4 minutes late....

SethPDX Mon May 04, 2009 03:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 599637)
In this area, that means the school owes you for the entire contract.

-Josh
Same here. This happened to me once last year. If we get there and it's called off before it starts we get travel plus a rainout fee.

Matt Mon May 04, 2009 07:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 599519)
When my uncle (my late father's younger brother) died this past March, my sons told me that I was now "The Godfather" of the family. When they told me that I replied that if we were a Mafia Family, we should get a stimulus check from Uncle Sam because we are so lousy at being a Mafia Family, :D.

My point is, it sounds like the Tournament Director wants a kickback if you want to umpire and I would think that is racketeering under the RICO Act (see bribery or extortion, but probably bribery).

MTD, Sr.

Nope. RICO requires two predicate offenses.

bniu Tue May 05, 2009 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 599636)
Amen!

I just emailed an AD from one of the schools that stiffed me this season, informing him of all that we incur with equipment, insurance, gas, time off work, etc. ... Let's just say, it was a revelation.

I hate when the money even has to be discussed, because I don't do it for the money. But when I get stiffed, I can't help but take a profound insult from all of it. Or how about when you drive 30 or 40 miles and find out the game was canceled a day and a half ago, but no one even considered picking up a telephone and notifying the umpires?
well an improper cancellation would be cause for a no-show which in my association, is billed at the full one game rate. I had a game last week that was cancelled without notifying us and my assigner said the school didn't hold up their end of the deal and I did so I was still entitled to one game's worth of pay (it's one game's worth of pay regardless if it was a single game, doubleheader, or even tripleheader that was cancelled improperly, but hey, we get to leave early!)

If a school stiffs umpires, my association will usually threaten to stop doing business with them which is a death wish for the schools since the only other association in our area has a reputation of having the worst umpires around...and my chapter usually has enough funds to pay umpires who get stiffed...

bniu Tue May 05, 2009 12:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 599450)
"The economy is bad"

It's bad for all of us! But with amateur umpires, this is a "2nd job". While at times, this can be lucrative, it should not be so important that refusing to deal with jerks as in the OP, it would affect our economic status.

I have never given anything, other than the normal assigner fees, back to any league or association, nor should anyone else.

I was once assigned to a Regional Tournament in which I and my 5 partners were approached in the parking lot by the TD. He stated that we need to wear these Tournament shirts and they cost $25 each. I stated that my crew had their State Association uniforms and those would do fine. The TD started to hem and haw so I instructed my crew to undress and pack up. We were all back in out street clothes when the TD begged us not to go and we could wear our uniforms. I stated that it would cost him the double header fee, right now and we would be glad to get dressed. Without a word, the TD paid the cash and we worked the 2 games without a hitch.
in a tournament, i'd ONLY split my game fees if we can get more umpires into the game. I'm perfectly willing to give half my game fees to a fellow blue so that we can have a 4 man crew instead of just 2 umps and if it's a REALLY long day, heck, i'd be willing to split my fees enough so that we can have 6 umps, saves the legs, don't have to move around so much and more eyes on the play. If a fellow blue hops into a game to do a 3 man crew with me for free, i'd sure as heck pay him for it or return the favor some other time. Think about the nice vacation after doing the plate, RF, LF, 3B. 2B is a warm-up, 1B is the game, and HP is the Big Game and then back to vacation: RF, LF, 3B.

ozzy6900 Tue May 05, 2009 06:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 599636)
Amen!

I just emailed an AD from one of the schools that stiffed me this season, informing him of all that we incur with equipment, insurance, gas, time off work, etc. ... Let's just say, it was a revelation.

I hate when the money even has to be discussed, because I don't do it for the money. But when I get stiffed, I can't help but take a profound insult from all of it. Or how about when you drive 30 or 40 miles and find out the game was canceled a day and a half ago, but no one even considered picking up a telephone and notifying the umpires?
Funny Kevin, but with that statement, you are doing it for the money! If you get stiffed, it upsets you as it does all of us. You negotiate for a fee (my association does this for us) and you have to justify your request for money.

So you are (and we all are who get paid) doing it for the money!

It's not a bad thing to admit so stop the "I'm not in it for the money" stuff and admit it. You love what you do and you like being paid for doing it! Once you admit to it in this light, you will find it easier to negotiate and walk away when necessary. I learned this lesson 25 years ago so I have no problem with it.

I love what I do and I like getting paid for it - plain and simple!

johnnyg08 Tue May 05, 2009 06:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 599748)
Funny Kevin, but with that statement, you are doing it for the money! If you get stiffed, it upsets you as it does all of us. You negotiate for a fee (my association does this for us) and you have to justify your request for money.

So you are (and we all are who get paid) doing it for the money!

It's not a bad thing to admit so stop the "I'm not in it for the money" stuff and admit it. You love what you do and you like being paid for doing it! Once you admit to it in this light, you will find it easier to negotiate and walk away when necessary. I learned this lesson 25 years ago so I have no problem with it.

I love what I do and I like getting paid for it - plain and simple!
Interesting point Ozzy...We hear the "I don't do it for the money" line time and time again...including me. However, I'm starting to lean more along your line of thinking.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue May 05, 2009 07:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 599695)
Nope. RICO requires two predicate offenses.


Matt:

Spoken like true lawyer. :D But could we have just plain old bribery or extortion?

MTD, Sr.

Blue37 Tue May 05, 2009 08:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 599750)
Interesting point Ozzy...We hear the "I don't do it for the money" line time and time again...including me. However, I'm starting to lean more along your line of thinking.
My statement is "I don't do it to make money, but I would not do it if I lost money". I want to make enough to cover my expenses, including the value of the annual leave I have to take for early afternoon games.

The statement is not on an individual game basis, but covers the entire year. The closest field to my home is twelve miles one way. When I have a game there and do not have to leave work early, my net gain is very high. The average distance for my travel is 35-40 miles one way with the longest drive right at 80 miles. If I have to leave work a couple of hours early for a game there, I will lose money, but it evens out in the long run.

Kevin Finnerty Tue May 05, 2009 09:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 599748)
Funny Kevin, but with that statement, you are doing it for the money! If you get stiffed, it upsets you as it does all of us. You negotiate for a fee (my association does this for us) and you have to justify your request for money.

So you are (and we all are who get paid) doing it for the money!

It's not a bad thing to admit so stop the "I'm not in it for the money" stuff and admit it. You love what you do and you like being paid for doing it! Once you admit to it in this light, you will find it easier to negotiate and walk away when necessary. I learned this lesson 25 years ago so I have no problem with it.

I love what I do and I like getting paid for it - plain and simple!
I do not do it for the money!

But I don't do it to be exploited or insulted. I take insult at being exploited. There are multiple reasons why I do this, and being a mercenary is not part of it. But when I am dealt with dishonorably, I am insulted. I love what I do and I don't like being insulted for doing it. Brand it what you will.

JFlores Tue May 05, 2009 10:44am
I do it for the moms in the stands.:D

Cub42 Tue May 05, 2009 12:21pm
$$$$$$
 
Sounds like to me that either the TD, Assignor, or a crony of theirs is in the uniform business. Most of us retalize that for NCAA or HS there are required uniforms. But we wear them all season not for one tournament. It is hypocritical to use the bad economy as an excuse to relieve the teams of some financial burden, yet throw it on the officials.


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