DH Plays Defense - Fed Rules

[Blue37]

For the home team:
#25 is batting 8th and playing left field.
#22 is batting 9th and hitting for the catcher #8.

Home coach comes to us as the teams are changing in the middle of the 5th and says, "I messed up. #25 got sick and I sent #22 to left field for him."

Two questions:
How many of you would have caught this?
What happens when the coach tells you this?

[dash_riprock]

1. Absent other evidence, I probably wouldn't have caught it.

2. a) #22 is restricted to the bench for the rest of the game.
b) the position of DH is terminated
c) you need a sub. to bat in the 8 hole
d) #8 now bats in the 9 hole

[bossman72]

Under normal circumstances, had the coach done a proper substitution, there would be nothing wrong.

However, he mad an illegal substitution and he became part of the game (unannounced). So, we have no choice but to enforce the illegal sub rule.

22 is restricted. 25 has been subbed out once (and may re-enter).
8 is now batting for himself and DH is terminated in the 9th slot.
Coach may put in a sub for 25 or have him re-enter.

[Dave Reed]

What's the rule that says #22 is the player to be restricted? When he went to play the field, the DH was terminated, and either he or #8 is now illegally in the game. I don't see how we determine which one is illegal.


Here's a related situation:
"3.1.4 SITUATION A: DH Jones, who has been batting for F3 in the fourth position in the batting order, hits a triple in the fifth inning and sprains his ankle sliding into third base. His coach has S1 enter the game to be a pinch runner for DH Jones. How does that affect the playing status of DH Jones and F3? RULING:
When a pinch runner or pinch hitter replaces the DH, that player becomes the DH. F3 would not be affected by the substitution. However, if the DH were to play defense, F3 would have to leave the game."

This casebook play seems to suggest that #8 should have (or could have) left the game, and then #22 would just be an unannounced defensive change.

What rule/ruling says #22 rather than #8 is illegal? (I'm not arguing that #8 is a better choice; just that he is as good a choice.)

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

What's the rule that says #22 is the player to be restricted? When he went to play the field, the DH was terminated, and either he or #8 is now illegally in the game. I don't see how we determine which one is illegal.


Here's a related situation:
"3.1.4 SITUATION A: DH Jones, who has been batting for F3 in the fourth position in the batting order, hits a triple in the fifth inning and sprains his ankle sliding into third base. His coach has S1 enter the game to be a pinch runner for DH Jones. How does that affect the playing status of DH Jones and F3? RULING:
When a pinch runner or pinch hitter replaces the DH, that player becomes the DH. F3 would not be affected by the substitution. However, if the DH were to play defense, F3 would have to leave the game."

This casebook play seems to suggest that #8 should have (or could have) left the game, and then #22 would just be an unannounced defensive change.

What rule/ruling says #22 rather than #8 is illegal? (I'm not arguing that #8 is a better choice; just that he is as good a choice.)

Rule 2-36-3c says #22 (the DH) is an illegal substitute because he entered the game on defense while the player he was batting for stayed in the game on defense. #8 did nothing wrong.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

Rule 2-36-3c says #22 (the DH) is an illegal substitute because he entered the game on defense while the player he was batting for stayed in the game on defense. #8 did nothing wrong.

And you make a good point here. I think we have contradictory rules as will be observed by reading further. It is quite possible that #22 or #8 could be restricted based on umpire's understanding of the rules.

Very interesting situation here.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

What's the rule that says #22 is the player to be restricted? When he went to play the field, the DH was terminated, and either he or #8 is now illegally in the game. I don't see how we determine which one is illegal.

(Case play deleted for space consideration - Blue37)

What rule/ruling says #22 rather than #8 is illegal? (I'm not arguing that #8 is a better choice; just that he is as good a choice.)

We handled it as Dash and Bossman stated above. While there might be some (read very little) wiggle room for restricting #8, logic would lead you to #22. #8 was already playing defense and he stayed as his same position. #22 was the player who assumed #25's defensive position. There would be more support for your contention had #22 gone in to catch and #8 gone to left field.

[dash_riprock]

Nice job getting that one right on the field. Most umps will have a career without having to deal with that. I hope I'm one of them.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Blue37

We handled it as Dash and Bossman stated above. While there might be some (read very little) wiggle room for restricting #8, logic would lead you to #22. #8 was already playing defense and he stayed as his same position. #22 was the player who assumed #25's defensive position. There would be more support for your contention had #22 gone in to catch and #8 gone to left field.

#8 could go to LF even if #22 stays as DH for him. #22 can only play defense if #8 leaves the game.

The role of the designated hitter is terminated when the designated hitter assumes a defensive position. So DH is in and the defensive player is out. So it would appear #8 is the illegal player for playing defense when he should be on the bench because the DH assumed a defensive position.

Replace #8 on defense, #22 bats in that slot as he should and you need a new player to bat in #25's slot.

#8 did do something wrong (or his coach did not recognize it). He stayed in the game when he should have left. DH goes in on defense, he goes out. He is the illegal player. He may have been unaware that he was doing wrong, but he has to leave when DH enters on defense. Coach should definitelly know this. #8 is the illegal player as #22 can enter on defense, position he is playing is irrelevant, batting order is. Legal substitute for sick #25 could have come in to play catcher when #22 went to LF.

[Thom Coste]

Nothing to add - stuck in a do-loop I'm trying to clear!