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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:16pm
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Malicious contact?

http://www.bullochheadlinenews.com/i...esaw%20St..wmv

Runner was immediately ejected. The Southern Conference mandates that any player ejected must sit out next game, but after reviewing the tape determined that this was not malicious contact and reinstated the player without penalty.

Thoughts?
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:19pm
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Was the contact at the 1 minute mark? If this is FED, maybe not malicious, but some type of illegal slide maybe? These guys look a bit older than FED level though maybe NCAA or OBR game? Either way, I think you can get away w/ a MC call here so I'm not saying that PU is wrong by any means.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:23pm
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Weird looking play. I had to replay it a few times. Paused it at the point of contact and it looked like he tried to use his left elbow to go through him. Looked like the right was trying to touch the plate. Not sure what I would have called in a game situation.

In a sarcastic note, glad that they were able to back the offical up.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:25pm
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Probably the play at the 0:51 mark. I don't know NCAA rules but it sure looks like MC to me.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Was the contact at the 1 minute mark? If this is FED, maybe not malicious, but some type of illegal slide maybe? These guys look a bit older than FED level though maybe NCAA or OBR game?
Didn't look malicious to me.

(It says Georgia Southern University on the scoreboard.)
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
(It says Georgia Southern University on the scoreboard.)
I knew somebody would let me know. A crazy sitch indeed. On the final play on the video, BU is covering home and he signals something at the end.

I can see a MC call here. If NCAA wants it called, they should support his ruling on this play...when in doubt it's MC...player safety is the issue.

Is there proof that the MC call was overruled. Not saying the OP is lying...just wondering where he got his info so we can discuss this.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 03:01pm
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By the way, thanks for posting this video clip. These are great for discussing!
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 03:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
I knew somebody would let me know. A crazy sitch indeed. On the final play on the video, BU is covering home and he signals something at the end.

I can see a MC call here. If NCAA wants it called, they should support his ruling on this play...when in doubt it's MC...player safety is the issue.

Is there proof that the MC call was overruled. Not saying the OP is lying...just wondering where he got his info so we can discuss this.
The Athletic Director for Georgia Southern called to thank the camera man for providing the video, and told him the conference had overturned the suspension.

I know this because I'm a Georgia Southern grad and fan. Wasn't at the game -- didn't see the play.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 03:10pm
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not a master at NCAA rules, but isn't it in the rules where they can only use video to determine who was or was not involved in a brawl? or does the conference get to do as they please? i just find it frustrating from an umpiring standpoint where a play like this gets overturned. Defensive coach comes unglued if you don't call MC here.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 03:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
not a master at NCAA rules, but isn't it in the rules where they can only use video to determine who was or was not involved in a brawl? or does the conference get to do as they please? i just find it frustrating from an umpiring standpoint where a play like this gets overturned. Defensive coach comes unglued if you don't call MC here.
Frustrating indeed. I hope the Southern Conference doesn't want any MC calls the rest of the year. I bet they don't get any, no matter the extent of the contact.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 08:51pm
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When I slowed the video down, it looked like the runner tried to get both shoulders around the player with the ball to get to the plate. So if the conference saw that, I could understand why they lifted the suspension. But had I been the umpire on the field it would be MC. That was my first impression from seeing it in real time, not in slow or stop action. Any other comments?
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 09:47pm
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Definitely MC in a FED game. In NCAA, which this appears to be, the umpire must judge if the runner is trying to score or just create MC. In this case I would say no MC per NCAA rules.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 10:08pm
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Here is the NCAA rule on Collision...

Collision Rule
SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and
violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all
bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive
players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.
a. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is
in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:
(1) Whether the collision by the runner was avoidable (could the runner
have reached the base without colliding) or unavoidable (the runner’s
path to the base was blocked);
(2) Whether the runner actually was attempting to reach the base (plate)
or attempting to dislodge the ball from the fielder; or
(3) Whether the runner was using flagrant contact to maliciously
dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the runner attempted to dislodge the ball, the runner shall
be declared out even if the fielder loses possession of the
ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return
to the last base touched at the time of the interference.
A.R. 1—If the fielder blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner
may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a
legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate.
A.R. 2—If the flagrant or malicious contact by the runner was before the runner’s
touching the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The
ball shall be declared dead immediately. All other base runners shall return to the bases
they occupied at the time of the pitch.
A.R. 3—If the contact was after a preceding runner had touched home plate, the
preceding runner will be ruled safe, the ball becomes dead immediately and all other base
runners will return to the base they had last touched before the contact.
A.R. 4—If the runner is safe and the collision is malicious, the runner shall be ruled safe
and ejected from the game. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team
may replace the runner.
b. If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly
without possession of the ball, obstruction shall be called. The umpire
shall point and call, “That’s obstruction.” The umpire shall let the play
continue until all play has ceased, call time and award any bases that are
RULE 8 / BASE RUNING 103
justified in Rule 2. The obstructed runner is awarded at least one base
beyond the base last touched legally before the obstruction.
A.R.—If the base runner collides flagrantly, the runner shall be declared safe on the
obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 02:40pm
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my .02

video feed ID showed the game as GSU vs Kennesaw State....no mention of any incident on the OWL website...
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 08:33pm
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I captured the play in question from the longer video and added slow motion. The new video is posted here:

YouTube - Play at the plate

I think an argument could be made for an obstruction call against the pitcher. Without possession of the ball, he caused the runner to alter his stride before reaching the plate.

Also, I don't see this as malicious contact with the catcher.
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