Let's have a thread about strike zones!

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SAump

A batter is crowding the plate. The ball is two widths outside. His "sweet spot" easily reaches 2 feet past that pitch. Everyone wants you to call it a strike, the OC the DC, and just about everyone on both teams and in the stands. They give you permission. The most famous coach in SEC history tells you before the season to call strikes. That or you can use that $3 strike zone cartoon and the black and white letter of the law. You pay $3000 to hear Mr. Evans' associates tell you it is your call to call that pitch the way you see it. "What ya gat?" Ball.

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black. There is no way I'm going to call 2 balls off the plate a strike.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by cc6

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black.

If that is the case, either your perception of what is over the black is off, or their's is. There is no way a batter, or a base coach, for that matter, from their angle can tell the difference of cutting the black or cutting the white that touches the black.

If these complaints are constant, you missing by a lot more than just the black.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by Ump153

If that is the case, either your perception of what is over the black is off, or their's is. There is no way a batter, or a base coach, for that matter, from their angle can tell the difference of cutting the black or cutting the white that touches the black.

If these complaints are constant, you missing by a lot more than just the black.

I used to purposely call 2 balls off the plate, and sometimes even more. A couple years ago I cut down to where if it looked over the black to me, or just an inch off, I'd call it a strike. I guess that when working the slot, if the pitch appears to be an inch off it probably means the pitch is at least half a foot off the plate. I set up in the slot one time on an empty field, and a colleague zipped his fist across the outside area of the plate, then asked me where I thought it was. I said "ball. Just a little bit off the plate". Then I stood directly over the plate, not in my stance, and he zipped his fist over nearly the same location, and it turned out the pitch was actually 8 or 9 inches off the black.

From there I adjusted by making sure that if the pitch is even remotely off the black, call it a ball. Had one adult league batter who struck out on three pitches, all of them called, all of them over the outside corner and well framed by the catcher. He went back to the bench swearing and saying how far outside it was. Yes I should have tossed him. I assumed my perception of the outside corner might have been a little bit off, and after the game I said to my partner (who had been in the hole as there was a runner on base at the time) "those pitches must have been about 5 inches off the plate". He said back to me "no I think those pitches were perfect, right on the outside corner". So what am I to think? Partner clearly sees the calls as good, but the batter is whining and because of my past struggles with calling pitches too far outside, I believe I must have screwed up, when in fact I didn't.

The point is, it is important to get feedback from a reliable source on where that outside pitch is. I also pay close attention to whether the catcher moves towards the outside of the plate, or whether he has to reach for the pitch. If he does, it was probably outside.

[Steve87]

A strike is like pornography, everyone knows it when they see it……but individual tastes may vary.


Greetings to all.

[DonInKansas]

That's gotta be one of the more unique first posts I've ever seen.

[njdevs00cup]

My personal opinion (with only varsity level experience) is the top of the zone has shrunk so much at the MLB level and it has trickled down. Granted, when you are the PU, you interpret, enforce, expand, etc. I hear more complaints regarding "perceived" high strikes than anything else. The belt cannot be the top of the zone at the high school level.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Durham

The 3rd base coach, yes an assistant who caught in college, said, "Come on Ken, you can't reward him on that." I responded, "Reward!!!! You tell me what part of the strike zone you think that missed? Because I have it splitting both ways. It's not a catching contest!"

I don't have conversations with assistants, unless it is between innings about how this is a beautiful day to play baseball, and that will be brief.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Durham

Last week during a mid-week DI plate job I had a curve ball that split the plate both ways, up-down and side-side. The catcher jumped, dropped, then raised slightly and got hit in the chest protector on the pitch. The 3rd base coach, yes an assistant who caught in college, said, "Come on Ken, you can't reward him on that." I responded, "Reward!!!! You tell me what part of the strike zone you think that missed? Because I have it splitting both ways. It's not a catching contest!"

I realize I've only called NCAA ball for 25 years and may not have your experience, but that conversation is about four times longer than any I've had from the plate with an assistant.

Tell Bob that Carl says "Hey" if you see Dartmouth again.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by DG

I don't have conversations with assistants, unless it is between innings about how this is a beautiful day to play baseball, and that will be brief.

I don't have aruguments with assistant coaches, but the occasional conversation is no problem for me. Don't get me wrong, assistants try and argue at times, but they get warned and then ejected if the continue. In fact I had one this weekend that wanted to argue and then continue arguing after causing his team to get a team warning for arguing balls and strikes.

I just did a PDF search of the NCAA rules and I don't remember it mentioning anything in OBR about umpires not being able to answer a question or converse with an assistant coach. I know it says that they can't leave their position to argue, and I know that I am not going to allow one to yell at me, but ask a question, if asked correctly I will more than likely answer beacuse I fell confident enough about what I am doing and my understanding of the playing rules to answer his question. Just my two cents and I know that to many of you they don't exisist, but my father always taught me to give respect if I expected to get it.

Ok, now let me get my mask and chest protector on before you guys reply.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I realize I've only called NCAA ball for 25 years and may not have your experience, but that conversation is about four times longer than any I've had from the plate with an assistant.

Tell Bob that Carl says "Hey" if you see Dartmouth again.

I don't see Bob or his boys on the schedule any more this year, I think they are done with their west coast swing and conference play has begun, but if I do see him I will say hi for ya. And if you see him say hi for me, I am the guy that ejected his first baseman for trying to fight the entire dugout of the opposing team, but I got the kid that he was primarily fighting, verbally, with as well. Oh, and I got my warnings in first.

Oh, and KF dump some old PM's so I can send ya one.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by Durham

.....but ask a question, if asked correctly I will more than likely answer.....

Originally Posted by Durham

"Come on Ken, you can't reward him on that."

That is not a question.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black. There is no way I'm going to call 2 balls off the plate a strike.

The feedback your getting is not very reliable.

Bowling analogy: Its in or out of the lane, period. Your "zone" may vary. When you visualize the outside zone as "keeping the ball" out of the gutter, you will begin to nail the outside pitch.

Rule of thumb: Try to set up in the same position from game to game. Extend your left arm across your body. Your left hand serves as an outside mechanism which will become more natural over time. Another piece of information to consider before rendering a call.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SAump

The feedback your getting is not very reliable.

Bowling analogy: Its in or out of the lane, period. Your "zone" may vary. When you visualize the outside zone as "keeping the ball" out of the gutter, you will begin to nail the outside pitch.

Rule of thumb: Try to set up in the same position from game to game. Extend your left arm across your body. Your left hand serves as an outside mechanism which will become more natural over time. Another piece of information to consider before rendering a call.

I've never heard the left arm analogy before. With a left handed batter at the plate, would it be the right arm across the body?

I do set up in the same place each pitch, except for if the catcher covers up the entire plate or the batter puts his hands in my line of vision. Then I am forced to improvise, and I find back and up doesn't work well unless I stand straight up.

I agree with Bob's statement that it is important to call the strikezone that gets the fewest complaints.

A swinger looks to pull everything he sees. A hitter goes with the pitch, including taking the outside pitch to the opposite field. If I'm doing a league full of swingers, meaning guys who are not willing to adjust to anything remotely outside, then I am going to call nothing off the black so that I avoid complaints and ejections.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

I've never heard the left arm analogy before. With a left handed batter at the plate, would it be the right arm across the body?

I do set up in the same place each pitch, except for if the catcher covers up the entire plate or the batter puts his hands in my line of vision. Then I am forced to improvise, and I find back and up doesn't work well unless I stand straight up.

I agree with Bob's statement that it is important to call the strikezone that gets the fewest complaints.

A swinger looks to pull everything he sees. A hitter goes with the pitch, including taking the outside pitch to the opposite field. If I'm doing a league full of swingers, meaning guys who are not willing to adjust to anything remotely outside, then I am going to call nothing off the black so that I avoid complaints and ejections.

The batter and his coach are not trying to help you. You cannot improve when you rely so much on what other people say they saw. Develop a reference zone for the outside pitch.

The left hand analogy applies to people who place their glove on their left hand and catch a baseball thrown on their right side backhanded {thumb down}. With an outside pitch thrown at a right handed batter, a lefthanded person would turn the glove over and reach out to the left to catch it forehanded {thumb up}.

You want to feel comfortable calling that outside pitch. It is all about a sense of location in or out of the zone. That is something the mind can handle much more quickly, and with a lot of confidence. IOW, as Evans says, proper use of the eyes provides the visual cues to the brain that result in the right call. Trying to measure the distance {brainwork} just makes the call that much harder.