Delay Dead Ball for a Balk in USSSA?

[budjones05]

Is it a Delay Dead Ball for a Balk in USSSA or just the ball is automatically dead? We got into an argument the other day and I can't find it in my rule book.

[Welpe]

U-Trip is played under OBR with a few modifications. In OBR, the ball is not immediately dead when a balk occurs.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by budjones05

Is it a Delay Dead Ball for a Balk in USSSA or just the ball is automatically dead? We got into an argument the other day and I can't find it in my rule book.

It's there - by effect.

Read the part about if the batter and runners advance one base safely the balk is ignored. The only way that could happen is if the ball were still live.

In HS rules the ball is immediately dead, but USSSA doesn't use HS rules.

[dash_riprock]

It's yet another one of those "in FED and only FED..." rules.

[ManInBlue]

The "official rules" are section 8 in the U-trip rule book.

You allow the play to continue. At the end of the play/pitch you enforce/ignore the balk. OBR rules (as already stated).

The short answer - Yes it is a "delayed dead ball" in u-trip.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's there - by effect.

Read the part about if the batter and runners advance one base safely the balk is ignored. The only way that could happen is if the ball were still live.

In HS rules the ball is immediately dead, but USSSA doesn't use HS rules.

Just emphasizing what Rich said about when to ignore the balk. Not sure how it is in the rest of U-trip country, but around here we hear too often this situation being "coach's choice" whether to enforce the balk or not. I hear that from both coach's and uninformed umpires.

[Rufus]

Not sure this is relevant or not, but USSSA rule 8.08.E (amended September 2008), which addresses balks, indicates that the penalty shall be:

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one (1) base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first (1st) on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one (1) base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

Seems that this indicates it's a timing thing - if you call the balk and the pitch is not delivered as a result runners advance; if you call the balk and the pitch is delivered resulting in one of the above, play on. Otherwise runners advance one base.

Am I interpreting that correctly?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Not sure this is relevant or not, but USSSA rule 8.08.E (amended September 2008), which addresses balks, indicates that the penalty shall be:

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one (1) base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first (1st) on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one (1) base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

Seems that this indicates it's a timing thing - if you call the balk and the pitch is not delivered as a result runners advance; if you call the balk and the pitch is delivered resulting in one of the above, play on. Otherwise runners advance one base.

Am I interpreting that correctly?

Yes, but that's only two (balk followed by nothing; balk followed by pitch)
of the three possibilities (balk followed by throw)

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's there - by effect.

Read the part about if the batter and runners advance one base safely the balk is ignored. The only way that could happen is if the ball were still live.

In HS rules the ball is immediately dead, but USSSA doesn't use HS rules.

please don't lump all high schools into this. there are a few states that still have their heads on straight.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

please don't lump all high schools into this. there are a few states that still have their heads on straight.

Are there any states other than Mass. that play under OBR?

[bobbybanaduck]

i thought there were still a couple...but i don't get out much.

[jeff d]

Digging up this old thread because of something I saw this last weekend at a U-trip Super NIT event and need some help understanding.

Balk was called and batter put the ball in play, but is this the correct way to signal the delayed balk? Isn't it to point at the pitcher and say balk and let the play continue before making the ruling where everyone goes?
For me this ump is calling time...

There was a discussion after by the coaches and I'm still not clear on why this isn't signaled like this. It's gets more confusing because he then puts his hands downs and then points up with his right hand and rolls his wrist like he's signaling a home run without his hand above his head. Is that some live ball signal I don't know?

[bob jenkins]

He probably just forgot he wasn't using FED rules (assuming that he wasn't).

Shouldn't happen, but it does.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Just emphasizing what Rich said about when to ignore the balk. Not sure how it is in the rest of U-trip country, but around here we hear too often this situation being "coach's choice" whether to enforce the balk or not. I hear that from both coach's and uninformed umpires.

Regarding the uninformed umpires, in your area or my neck of the woods, I suspect they have been informed and don't want to apply the brain power to understand the rule. Regarding the coaches, it's interesting that they know they have the "coaches choice" on a balk but we debate whether to inform them that they have a choice on CI.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by jeff d

Digging up this old thread because of something I saw this last weekend at a U-trip Super NIT event and need some help understanding.

Balk was called and batter put the ball in play, but is this the correct way to signal the delayed balk? Isn't it to point at the pitcher and say balk and let the play continue before making the ruling where everyone goes?
For me this ump is calling time...

There was a discussion after by the coaches and I'm still not clear on why this isn't signaled like this. It's gets more confusing because he then puts his hands downs and then points up with his right hand and rolls his wrist like he's signaling a home run without his hand above his head. Is that some live ball signal I don't know?

Not the way to call the play as presented. Balk, pitch, hit, play on...
Balk, delay, time, pitch, hit, kill it again.

Did he give a verbal call of time also? Time is called by this motion followed with a verbal Time. Did the play continue? Was he working 1 man? If no verbal and play didn't stop, the photo looks like no players see the call? So probably an oops, the bent wrist and finger twirl was probably his idea of a wrist slap, doh to himself?

If play continued he lucked out and dodged one.