whats the "default" call

t2nyval · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 08:27am

Little League (8-10 yrs). 1 Umpire game, me behind the plate. 2 outs R2 Shot to RF, R2 rounds 3rd, BR going to 2nd. I move toward 2B for the call. Close tag, (does he still have the ball) He has the ball, 3rd out, as I turn to check R2 who is past home. I didnt see if he scored before or after the out was made. His team says he made it, the other says he didnt. I didnt see either way. What call do I make?? Did he score or not?

jicecone · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 08:37am

In that situation you should have stayed home, although not ideal for the play at second, one umpire games do have there downsides. As far as counting the run, well if you didnt see it your never going to know for sure however, whatever decision you made, Im sure the other team disagreed with. They do that even for the ones you do see.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 10:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by t2nyval
Little League (8-10 yrs). 1 Umpire game, me behind the plate. 2 outs R2 Shot to RF, R2 rounds 3rd, BR going to 2nd. I move toward 2B for the call. Close tag, (does he still have the ball) He has the ball, 3rd out, as I turn to check R2 who is past home. I didnt see if he scored before or after the out was made. His team says he made it, the other says he didnt. I didnt see either way. What call do I make?? Did he score or not?

Try to sneak a peak before the play at second -- while the ball is in the air, glance at the runner; is he likely to make it home before the tag?

You can also take a slightly different angle on the play at second, allowing you to glance at home just after you see the tag, then return your glance to second to be sure F4/6 held the ball (yes, you might miss a slight juggle).

When in doubt, I usually don't count the run.

PeteBooth · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 11:36am

Originally posted by t2nyval

Little League (8-10 yrs). 1 Umpire game, me behind the plate. 2 outs R2 Shot to RF, R2 rounds 3rd, BR going to 2nd. I move toward 2B for the call. Close tag, (does he still have the ball) He has the ball, 3rd out, as I turn to check R2 who is past home. I didnt see if he scored before or after the out was made. His team says he made it, the other says he didnt. I didnt see either way. What call do I make?? Did he score or not?

You said LL (8-10) so we are talking about a 60 ft. diamond. When working solo position yourself in what is termed "the working area" which is around the pitcher's mound.

From there especially on a 60 ft diamond, 200 ft. fence you can see pretty well.

If you have time try and glance back. If you don't then I'd score the run. The bases are only 60 ft. so there's a good chance that r2 scored before the tag.

You are solo so the coaches should not get that upset. There's probably a reason you are solo (you said LL so it's common and probably cause for a different thread altogether). You can't cover everything when solo.

Pete Booth

brandda · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 12:02pm

My esteemed colleagues have already discussed the mechanics of how to prevent this, so I won't bother.

I don't think there is a default call, but I fall back to the "if I did not see it, it did not happen." I have players look at me occasionally when they are away from the play and I was looking the other way and tell me they were interfered with or the runner left early or some such and I just tell them "I did not see it, no call".

I personally would not score the run if I did not see him cross the plate before the third out.

phillycheese · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 04:49pm

Dave, you are making a default call here when you are saying if you don't see it, it didn't happen.(Of course, I have a feeling that you wouldn't turn your back on a potential timing play like the poster did!!) That works for things like obstruction, interference, foot out of the box, missed bases(hehe, laughing over a different thread),etc, but I would think some common sense would apply here. Like Pete said, with 60 ft bases, there is a good chance that r2 did score. You could rephrase your fall back position on this type of play to "I didn't see the runner NOT cross the plate before the tag." I think on this sitch, you have to give the benifit of the doubt to the offense. Both get something on the play. The defense gets an out, and the offense gets a run. And of course, next time the poster will set up different and not have a problem. Of course, we didn't see all the details, but if r2 was off and running with contact, he probably scored, if he holds up waiting for a possible catch, he probably didn't. We definitely need some judgment on this call.

[Edited by phillycheese on Jun 3rd, 2002 at 04:52 PM]

GarthB · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 03, 2002, 05:54pm

When working solo a good rule to abide by is to never allow a runner get between you and the third baseline. On this play, one should move up the third base line in foul territory, get the angle needed, set and make the call at second. If the runner comes by first you can see out of the corner of your eye his status at home. If he does not, he didn't score.

Is this perfect? No. If they want better coverage they can hire a second umpire. But it is a better mechanic than getting into fair territory and either chasing a runner home or having a play occur, as this one did, behind your back.

The "working area" around the mound is great for keeping up with a batter/runner on a bases empty hit, but it is just terrible when runners are already on base.