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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 21, 2002, 07:46am
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Exclamation

I might be blind (bad for an ump) but I can't find ANYWHERE in the NFHS 2002 Rule Book where it states that a runner MUST slide at home or any other base?

(A) Is it in there?
(B) If a runner does NOT slide at 2B as the defese is attempting to turn a DP and the "non-slide" alters the throw to first - can the runner at first be called out via the "interference" by the runner that did not slide?


Thanks.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 08:39am
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The reason you can't find it is because
it is NOT there. There is no MUST SLIDE
rule in any baseball I know of.

The way I understand the HS rule is as follows:
The runner must slide OR avoid the fielder
on a force play at any base. If he slides
directly in a straight line to the base and
does nothing to alter the play (like pop up
right away and block the throw) he's OK.
If he legally slides and contacts the fielder
(not beyond base) this contact is legal.
He can't do anything to hinder the fielder's
attempt to throw for a DP (like slide away from
the base toward or into the fielder). He must
slide straight or avoid by veering off away
from the play. He may not kick his leg up
into the fielder, or interfere beyond the base.
A runner may go in standing up if he does not
contact the fielder or alter the play.

Whether the defense could have completed the
double play has no bearing on applying this rule.

In such interference, the batter and the
interfering runner shall be declared out
and no runners may advance.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 09:39am
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Originally posted by steelehead

I might be blind (bad for an ump) but I can't find ANYWHERE in the NFHS 2002 Rule Book where it states that a runner MUST slide at home or any other base?

(A) Is it in there?
(B) If a runner does NOT slide at 2B as the defese is attempting to turn a DP and the "non-slide" alters the throw to first - can the runner at first be called out via the "interference" by the runner that did not slide?



FED rule 8-4-2b

NOTE: Runners are NEVER required to slide , but if a runner ELECTS to slide, the slide must be legal (FED rule 2-32-1,2)

As Marty states, there is no must slide rule anywhere.

Pete Booth

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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 11:24am
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Don't know about FED, but the LL rule is that the runner "must slide or attempt to go around".

My question on this is, does "go around" include up? I.e. can a runner legally jump over the catcher/fielder? I say yes as I believe that the intent of the rule is to prevent malicious collisions intended to jar the ball loose, but some of the other umpires in our league say no. I would be interested in the forum's opinions on this.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 11:30am
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NFHS states that a runner cannot "hurdle a fielder in an attempt to avoid a tag."

Don't know about LL.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 11:43am
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The runner, although not allowed to jump/hurdle over a fielder (except one that is lying flat on the ground), may jump/hurdle over the outstretched arm of a fielder.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 12:03pm
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Originally posted by brandda

Don't know about FED, but the LL rule is that the runner "must slide or attempt to go around".

Not quite right. Here's the LL rule 7.08(a-3)

A Runner is out if he /she does not slide or attempt to go around a Fielder who:

1. Has possession of the ball AND

2. Waiting to make a tag.

Both the aforementioned conditions MUST be met in order for the umpire to register the out. In other words, in LL there is NO Malicious contact rule as in FED.

In FED, a runner who maliciously contacts another is out whether a fielder has the ball or not or whether they are in or out of the base line FED rule 2-21-1b


My question on this is, does "go around" include up? I.e. can a runner legally jump over the catcher/fielder? I say yes as I believe that the intent of the rule is to prevent malicious collisions intended to jar the ball loose, but some of the other umpires in our league say no. I would be interested in the forum's opinions on this.

FED rule 8-4-2c

Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground.

Diving over a fielder is illegal

FED and OBR (LL) are vastly different

Pete Booth

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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 12:54pm
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Pete,

Is diving over a fielder illegal in LL as well? I cannot find a reference to it. Does it qualify as a headfirst slide?

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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 09:28pm
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Originally posted by brandda

Pete,

Is diving over a fielder illegal in LL as well? I cannot find a reference to it. Does it qualify as a headfirst slide?


In LL 12 and under age groups you cannot dive over a fielder as IMO, that would constitute a head first slide, however, a runner may slide head first retreating to a base, so it is possible even in the 12 and under age groups for a runner to Dive over a fielder if they are retreating to a base.

In Jr.'s and above, it is legal for a runner to dive over a fielder.
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 01:54am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by brandda

Pete,

Is diving over a fielder illegal in LL as well? I cannot find a reference to it. Does it qualify as a headfirst slide?


In LL 12 and under age groups you cannot dive over a fielder as IMO, that would constitute a head first slide, however, a runner may slide head first retreating to a base, so it is possible even in the 12 and under age groups for a runner to Dive over a fielder if they are retreating to a base.

In Jr.'s and above, it is legal for a runner to dive over a fielder.
Sliding and diving are two different animals. Sliding head first retreating to a base, is different than diving over a fielder in retreating to a base. Read the definitions in a dictionary.

Bob

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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 06:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by brandda

Pete,

Is diving over a fielder illegal in LL as well? I cannot find a reference to it. Does it qualify as a headfirst slide?


In LL 12 and under age groups you cannot dive over a fielder as IMO, that would constitute a head first slide, however, a runner may slide head first retreating to a base, so it is possible even in the 12 and under age groups for a runner to Dive over a fielder if they are retreating to a base.

In Jr.'s and above, it is legal for a runner to dive over a fielder.
Pete, I have not done LL for many years. I had a discussion with Eastern Regional LL HQ's many years ago about diving over fielders. Their position then was going to the base or going back the answer was : "Diving over a fielder in any way is not condusive to the saftey of Little League players under the age of 13 years. Although not in the rule books, the umpire may declare an out on the side of saftey but not an ejection on the first offense.".

This was around 1992 when I got this information and it may have changed by now. If you have any ties to a Regional HQ, why don't you check it out and let us all know.

Thanks
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 06:31am
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Originally posted by bluezebra
Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by brandda


Sliding and diving are two different animals. Sliding head first retreating to a base, is different than diving over a fielder in retreating to a base. Read the definitions in a dictionary.

I have read the dictionary and while these are 2 different acts, the result is the same - The player lands head first. In fact diving is probably more dangerous than sliding.

Common Bob you have heard the expression - The player DIVES back in safely. When a player dives back in safely it is considered a form of a head first slide.

This is probably a good one for eteamz.

Pete Booth

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Old Fri May 24, 2002, 11:03am
Rog Rog is offline
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Cool 1992!!!

No need to check with LL Regional, it's in the CURRENT 2002 LL Baseball Rule Book: 7.08-a-4; which, was amended in 1997!!!!!
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Old Fri May 24, 2002, 11:12am
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Pete, et.al.

A head first slide is only illegal in LL when advancing.

It IS legal to dive head first BACK to a base.
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Old Fri May 24, 2002, 11:26am
Rog Rog is offline
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Wink

re: "A head first slide is only illegal in LL when advancing.
It IS legal to dive head first BACK to a base."

This is what I referenced:
2000 Little League
Western Region Umpire School
Rules Instruction Manual
7.08(a)(4) (Major/Minor Baseball)
This rule does not apply when
a runner is returning to a base,
only when advancing.
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