How are MLB Umpires graded

[PeteBooth]

Hi all:

I think most of us know about the incident in the Chargers / Broncos game this past Sunday where referee Ed Hochuli admitted he made a mistake but there was nothing in the rules that would allow him to give the ball to the Chargers.

For those that didn't see or hear about the game the play involved QB Cuttler from Denver attempting a forward pass late in the game. Referre Ed Hochuli blew the whistle and signalled Incomplete pass,

Since the play happened in the last 2 minutes of the game, the review comes from the booth. IR CLEARLY showed that the ball was indeed a fumble but because Hochuli blew the whistle there was nothing he could do except give the ball back to Denver at the point of the fumble which was the 10 yard line.

Here is what happened to Mr. Hochuli

Officials are held accountable for their calls. They are graded on every play of every game,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Monday. “Ed has been an outstanding official for many years, but he will be marked down for this call.”

I mention this on the baseball Forum because I cannot remember a time when an ML umpire was "called out on the carpet" by either his superior or a major league baseball spokesman. If any of you know please site

We had the Mike Winters incident but that had nothing to do with a call that he made but in regards to comments he made about Milton Bradley.

It seems as though Football referees are held more accountable for their actions that ML baseball umpires. In addition I cannot remember a time when a ML baseball umpire was "taken to task" by one of hos superiors or a spokesman even the infamous Don Denkinger

There were some terrible calls in the BOSOX Blue Jays game this weekend that could have an impact on the playoffs yet nothing was said.

Look at Eric Gregg's terrible strike zone in the world series etc. It seems as though major league baseball umpires get a "free ride' compared to football officials



Pete Booth

[BaBa Booey]

Football refs work 16 games a year...MLB umpires work 135 or so....it's to be expected that more mistakes will be made in the course of a baseball season than a football season...in determining the top NFL officials, each game must be looked at more closely and each call scrutinized to a higher degree. MLB umpires travel every 3 to 4 days, as opposed to once a week. I have no idea which is more difficult, an NFL or MLB game, but it would seem that the life of an MLB umpire is more difficult and so perhaps they are given more leeway.

That being said, if you want to see if guys are held accountable for their actions just look at playoff assignments. If guys don't do their job to the liking of their supervisors, they don't get the playoffs. Just because MLB doesn't trash their umpires in the media doesn't mean they get a free ride.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BaBa Booey

Football refs work 16 games a year...MLB umpires work 135 or so....it's to be expected that more mistakes will be made in the course of a baseball season than a football season...in determining the top NFL officials, each game must be looked at more closely and each call scrutinized to a higher degree. MLB umpires travel every 3 to 4 days, as opposed to once a week. I have no idea which is more difficult, an NFL or MLB game, but it would seem that the life of an MLB umpire is more difficult and so perhaps they are given more leeway.

That being said, if you want to see if guys are held accountable for their actions just look at playoff assignments. If guys don't do their job to the liking of their supervisors, they don't get the playoffs. Just because MLB doesn't trash their umpires in the media doesn't mean they get a free ride.

I don't understand what you want, Pete. Do you want baseball ripping their umpires in public? Umpires are the representatives of the league on the field. Why would a company rip its employees in public? I don't understand why the NFL feels it's in its best interests to throw Ed under the bus since he THREW HIMSELF there on the field over the microphone.

[PeteBooth]

Rich what I am looking for is more ways for guys in the minor leagues who are busting their buts and making peanuts to have a LEGITIMATE chance to move up.

It's similar to us amateurs. If we have a bad game in a HS Sectional game or say a D1 College game, chances are that will most likely be our LAST BIG game at least for a while. Others now will have a chance to get a BIG game.

Major League baseball officials are there for practically a life-time. I realize there are many more games in baseball but IMO, they should be taken to task when they blow a call equivalent to Ed Hochuli and they are not.

Pete Booth

[socalumps]

MLB Umps are unionized !!

[griff901c]

Originally Posted by socalumps

MLB Umps are unionized !!

You make that sound like a bad thing. Being a ML umpire is a full time job. Being a NFL referee is not.

griff

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't understand what you want, Pete. Do you want baseball ripping their umpires in public? Umpires are the representatives of the league on the field. Why would a company rip its employees in public? I don't understand why the NFL feels it's in its best interests to throw Ed under the bus since he THREW HIMSELF there on the field over the microphone.

I will tell you why. A single game means a lot more than a single game in a baseball season. There is more at stake and more people paying attention. So the accountability factor is much bigger. MLB can have things happen and almost no one other than those watching the game will realize it. And to be fair, the NFL supports their officials much more than MLB does. The league seems to not every comment on anything their umpires do good or bad. The NFL has a better business model because they are public with their opinions about players, coaches and officials.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Rich what I am looking for is more ways for guys in the minor leagues who are busting their buts and making peanuts to have a LEGITIMATE chance to move up.

It's similar to us amateurs. If we have a bad game in a HS Sectional game or say a D1 College game, chances are that will most likely be our LAST BIG game at least for a while. Others now will have a chance to get a BIG game.

Major League baseball officials are there for practically a life-time. I realize there are many more games in baseball but IMO, they should be taken to task when they blow a call equivalent to Ed Hochuli and they are not.

Pete Booth

I think it's ridiculous to think that a bad game should result in an umpire losing his career. Of course, I think the whole model for getting to the Major Leagues is broken, anyway.

The whole system is set up like a huge Ponzi scheme with only one or two guys every five years given a shot at the top. They know it going in, but it still doesn't make it the best system.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will tell you why. A single game means a lot more than a single game in a baseball season. There is more at stake and more people paying attention. So the accountability factor is much bigger. MLB can have things happen and almost no one other than those watching the game will realize it. And to be fair, the NFL supports their officials much more than MLB does. The league seems to not every comment on anything their umpires do good or bad. The NFL has a better business model because they are public with their opinions about players, coaches and officials.

Peace

One day people will realize that, at the end of the day, it's a game. Hell, my team lost last night and the sun is still high in the sky.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

One day people will realize that, at the end of the day, it's a game. Hell, my team lost last night and the sun is still high in the sky.

It is a game, but it is also a business whether you like it or not. And a business that has a lot of people watching even if it is about betting or fantasy leagues, the success of the NFL is unmatched. And when more people pay attention to your league, you tend to be more public. Also the NFL has a successful network and football dwarfs the ratings and concern that MLB has had in a very long time. It might just be a game to you, but if people do not like the product, they go somewhere else and spend their money.

Peace

[gordon30307]

When was the last time a MLB Umpire was fired because he was bad? Unless you get caught betting, sick, injured or some other outrageous act the only way a spot opens is if a guy retires. In the NFL and NBA guys are let go or not rehired all the time. Where's the incentive to improve or at least maintain the same edge when you were clawing your way to the top? There is none.

Being a MLB umpire is the best officiating job that there is. You get paid six figures and you really have to work hard to get your *** fired.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jpc2119

Being an MLB umpire is also the hardest to get. Those guys put in their time in the minors getting paid sh%t, getting treated worse, and jumping through more obstacles for 10 or so years before they got their shot than officials in any other major sport. They had to deal with all that scrutiny their entire careers, on a full-time basis. It's not just handed to people. And if you really think that they don't care, and they're just out there to collect their $$$ you're nuts. A good portion of them could retire today will their benefits and not work the rest of their lives.

It is only hard because MLB never gets rid of people. I would not say it is hard based on being talented and that there are so many people in the way. If anything it is equally as hard to get that opportunity in other sports, but there is no training ground as you have in MLB to hire people that move through a specific process. The NBA and NFL look at people that can work and a wider pool. MLB's pool is much smaller and eliminates people that would ordinarily be qualified to work their sport. Then you do not in my opinion get the best of the best working your game.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by jpc2119

Being an MLB umpire is also the hardest to get. Those guys put in their time in the minors getting paid sh%t, getting treated worse, and jumping through more obstacles for 10 or so years before they got their shot than officials in any other major sport. They had to deal with all that scrutiny their entire careers, on a full-time basis. It's not just handed to people. And if you really think that they don't care, and they're just out there to collect their $$$ you're nuts. A good portion of them could retire today will their benefits and not work the rest of their lives.

It's the hardest job to get only because there are so few openings. As to working hard to get there I fail to see your point. I can't think of one profession that you DON'T have to work hard to get to the top. That being said in most professions you have up and comers constantly nipping at your heals trying to get your spot. Most professions you have to work hard to stay there. A MLB Umpire it's virtually lifetime employment if you don't **** up your personal life.

[tballump]

Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:02 am EDT

MLB says ump was wrong on obstruction call Sunday

Upon further review, umpire Doug Eddings was wrong about the controversial obstruction call involving Tampa's Willy Aybar in Sunday's game at Chicago.

Mike Port, MLB's vice president of umpiring, told the St. Petersburg Times on Thursday that it was "a missed call" and that in making the split-second decision, Eddings thought he saw runner A.J. Pierzynski "impeded more than he was" by Aybar, the Rays' third baseman.

"Looking back at that occurrence, for the first and last time, it was a missed call," Port said. "And it was not because Doug Eddings, an umpire with 10 years experience, and 10 before that in the minor leagues, didn't know the application of the rule, but just that in the moment in applying the rule, he saw something he thought was more than it turned out to be."

Pierzynski, in a rundown between second and third in the 10th inning, stuck out his left elbow at Aybar. Eddings ruled there was obstruction and awarded third base to Pierzyn- ski, who later scored the winning run for the White Sox.

Port said that after watching replays, Eddings was "the first to admit" he was wrong and said so to MLB officials who regularly review controversial plays. There is no recourse, however, for the Rays.

Source: St. Petersburg Times

Related: Willy Aybar, A.J. Pierzynski

The above takes care of the, "I cannot remember a time when a ML umpire was "called out on the carpet" by his supervisor or major league baseball spokesman". If any of you know, please site.

Maybe there would be more turnover or jobs in MLB if the 17 crews had 7 members per crew like football does. That would be 6 on the field and the 7th member as an alternate for injuries or be the official scorer. This would open up 51 jobs and that would just about take care of all the AAA guys.

Why is there talk about helping out the AAA guys who are working their tails off, when the amateur umpires, (including D1 umpires making $200 per game and 40-50 per diem) worked during the MiLB strike, and the AAA guys were only making $100-110 per game for a 140 game schedule and 25 per diem? AA probably makes $80 and A $60.

Once again, the big leagues have all the time in the world to test the umpires for the job openings to make sure they are picking the absolute best umpires to work in MLB for the next 20-30 years once they are hired. They release umpires that are on "option" or the "call-up list" which serves the same purpose as the NFL weeding out their new officials. Gary Cederstrom worked 18 years in the minors before being called up in 1997. He worked his first big league game in June of 1989, so they had 8 years to evaluate him in big league games befor hiring him. He was the #1 student from the Kinnamon school in San Bernardino in 1979. 1979 was the same year that produced the start for Steve Javie(now NBA), Terry Craft, Greg Bonin, Tom Hallion and Chuck Meriwether.

Since the NFL does not have the minor league system for giving officials a good look in NFL games before being hired, they are fired from the "Official staff" rather than from a "call up list". How many veterans get fired each year in the NFL?

As was stated in other posts, the umpires are rated each year and the best work the playoffs. If an umpire has a bad year, he is "written down" and does not received the playoffs or maybe only the divisional rather than an LCS or WS, which is the same as might happen to the NFL official in question.

Sorry for the long post.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

One day people will realize that, at the end of the day, it's a game. Hell, my team lost last night and the sun is still high in the sky.

This is an apples to oranges comparison. The Eagles got beaten by the Cowboys fair and square. The Chargers got beaten by the officiating. Not fair. Not square. Am I bitter? Uh, yeah, shouldn't I be?

Ask Norv Turner if he's still pis$ed off about it. I haven't heard him say it's just a game yet. If the Donks had actually scored a touchdown without Hochuli's help there at the end, then I would have just said, "oh well, the losers lost again, big deal" and gone on about my day. But to have the obvious horrific call take the ball out of the Chargers' hands like that was way more than a fan should have to endure, and it absolutely ruined my Sunday.