Foul Tip of Foul ball

[Dave Davies]

Happened last night at LLWS

2 strikes. Pitched ball hits the dirt, then swung on. Ball hits bat and goes sharp and direct to the catchers mitt.

Foul Tip or Foul Ball?

Pro interp reads that a ball that strikes the ground and swung on can't be considered as caught strike 3. Also, a ball that hits the the ground and is then struck by the bat shall be considered as a ball In Flight. If this ball In Flight is caught by the catcher directly from the bat, is it a foul tip?

3rd World, I know. Just curious.

Dave

[Carl Childress]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Davies:
Happened last night at LLWS

2 strikes. Pitched ball hits the dirt, then swung on. Ball hits bat and goes sharp and direct to the catchers mitt.

Foul Tip or Foul Ball?

Pro interp reads that a ball that strikes the ground and swung on can't be considered as caught strike 3. Also, a ball that hits the the ground and is then struck by the bat shall be considered as a ball In Flight. If this ball In Flight is caught by the catcher directly from the bat, is it a foul tip?

3rd World, I know. Just curious.

Dave

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Dave:

This was discussed several days ago on another Board. Precognition?

The play there was:

Bases loaded, bottom of the last inning, home down by one, batter swings at a ball in the dirt and nicks it directly into the catcher's glove. The batter ran, the catcher threw the ball away, and two runs scored to give Home the victory.

The one with the play wanted to show that here is where the umpire should give the foul tip signal. (As you know, I've been arguing it is superfluous except to impart information to the fans.)

Here's what I wrote there. It is relevant to your LLWS play as well.

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True or False: A ball that hits the ground cannot be caught in flight. Answer: True.

True or False: A batted ball that goes sharp and direct into the catcher's hands or mitt and then is caught [by the catcher] is a foul tip. Answer: True.

The instant the pitch touches the bat, it is now a batted ball. If B1 hits it into the air, it can be caught for an out. If he hits in into the mitt, then it is a caught strike. If it's the third strike, that sucker is out.

In this case the game is over.

BTW: Here is an instance where the foul tip signal is not superfluous. Remember, I pointed out the foul tip was invented to show the fans why a check swing was called a strike: The pitch nicked the bat. Here, the foul tip signal would show the same information, explaining why the batter could not try for first on the "dropped third strike."

"Myrtle, how come that batter is out?"

"Why, Gertrude, he foul tipped it into the mitt. You know, sometimes those foul tips go back to the screen. I've heard Tim McCarver talk about that a lot."

[This message has been edited by Carl Childress (edited August 24, 2000).]

[T Alan]

Dave:

By definition alone whle a ball striking the ground before a swing can never be considered a caught third strike a 'foul tip' definition starts after the ball strikes the bat.

It is kinda/sorta clear that the foul tip that moves quickly and directly can be caught.

So the point really becomes:

BR can always run on a third strike IF the ball has struck the ground prior to the swing, YET, it appears that if he happens to foul tip the ball he is then out????

In golf officiating we have a term called "In Equity" which means we find a common sense agreement.

CArl will be best to answer but "In Equity" it would seem that the BR should be able to run on both the swinging strike and foul tip situation.

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Strikes & Outs

[DrC.]

Take a look at Rules Section 2 (Definition of Terms). Look at Ball and Strike. They both clearly tell you that in this case, the batter is OUT !!!
See the last line on Defintion of Ball and case G on Definiton of Stirke)

A BALL is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a "ball." If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b). If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight.

A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which_
(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone;
(c) Is fouled by the batter when he has less than two strikes;
(d) Is bunted foul;
(e) Touches the batter as he strikes at it;
(f) Touches the batter in flight in the strike zone; or
(g) Becomes a foul tip.

[Mark Land]

I know the ruling is that a batter can run on 3rd strike that bounces before reaching the plate.

Is there a limit? Situation. Visitors leading 3 to 2, bottom of the 9th, 2 out, 0-2 count. Jack Rabbit at the plate and knows he MUST get on to bring Big Stick to the plate.

Lefty tries to waste a pitch,but bounces it 3 feet in front of the plate, no way F2 can catch it. Can Jack swing, not trying to hit it, but so that he can reach?

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Take care,
Mark

[Hugo Tafurstnow]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Land:
I know the ruling is that a batter can run on 3rd strike that bounces before reaching the plate.

Is there a limit? Situation. Visitors leading 3 to 2, bottom of the 9th, 2 out, 0-2 count. Jack Rabbit at the plate and knows he MUST get on to bring Big Stick to the plate.

Lefty tries to waste a pitch,but bounces it 3 feet in front of the plate, no way F2 can catch it. Can Jack swing, not trying to hit it, but so that he can reach?

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I don't see why not..
I've always wondered about that myself.
Calling mostly youngsters, I would love to see someone who was quick enough to figure that out!

[Warren Willson]

Heck! I'd liked to see "someone who was quick enough" to beat "that out"!

Warren Willson

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Member and Co-Moderator, UT

[Hugo Tafurstnow]

quote:

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Originally posted by Warren Willson:
Heck! I'd liked to see "someone who was quick enough" to beat "that out"!

Warren Willson

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Youth ball, remember! 60' basepath -Ball bounces, batter swings, batter runs, catcher misses ball, catcher chases ball, batter almost there, catcher throws ball, F3 misses ball....... Oh, I love this game!