NFHS Baseball R1-S2-A3 (On-deck Circle)

[Dave Reed]

I think this is not an important issue to get upset (rant) about. But in the spirit of observing the letter of the rule:

Interestingly, I see nothing in 1-2-3 or 2-23 that specifies the on-deck circle should be on the same side of the diamond as a team's dugout. Secondly, while there is a 37 foot specification, it only applies if space permits. Otherwise, the OD circle should be a safe distance away. So, I'm not convinced that the letter of the rule is being breeched. Not that I think the letter of the rule is very important here.

Practically, I am quite sure that a player positioned behind a batter is less likely to be struck by a batted ball than if he were on the front side of the batter, even if he is only a dozen feet behind (which would be inside the cutout, by the way. Are you sure they are that close?) If the position behind the batter is nearer the opposing dugout, there is a higher likelihood of confrontation, and I suppose that's why the local rule keeps the player close to home plate.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Not that I think the letter of the rule is very important here.

So you just pick and choose which rules to apply by the letter of the rule ? I'm not trying to pick a fight, or be demeaning , I'm just curious
why you feel this way.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

So you just pick and choose which rules to apply by the letter of the rule ?

The umpiring community as a whole picks and chooses which rules to apply by letter. Jim Evans has famously listed 234 (or some similar number) of errors in OBR. Most of those errors are instances in which we apply the rules differently than written. In some instances, the rules are self-inconsistent, and one part or the other of a written rule necessarily has to be ignored.

Even a casual fan of baseball knows that umpires universally enforce a strike zone which is different from the letter of the rule.

Regarding the rules associated with the on-deck batter, there are a couple of reasons to not enforce the letter. First, the rule carries an unjustified level of precision. I think it is obvious to everybody that 36 or 38 feet are nearly as appropriate as 37 feet. I've never seen an umpire with a tape measure checking the on-deck circle for compliance.

Second, the rules themselves recognize that many fields don't have sufficient space, and the rules end up settling for whatever is safe. I suppose in that sense, I do favor following the letter of the rule!

[zebra2955]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

I think this is not an important issue to get upset (rant) about. But in the spirit of observing the letter of the rule:

Interestingly, I see nothing in 1-2-3 or 2-23 that specifies the on-deck circle should be on the same side of the diamond as a team's dugout. Secondly, while there is a 37 foot specification, it only applies if space permits. Otherwise, the OD circle should be a safe distance away. So, I'm not convinced that the letter of the rule is being breeched. Not that I think the letter of the rule is very important here.

Practically, I am quite sure that a player positioned behind a batter is less likely to be struck by a batted ball than if he were on the front side of the batter, even if he is only a dozen feet behind (which would be inside the cutout, by the way. Are you sure they are that close?) If the position behind the batter is nearer the opposing dugout, there is a higher likelihood of confrontation, and I suppose that's why the local rule keeps the player close to home plate.

1-2-3 states Neither teams players shall warm up in the others team on deck circle. 2-23 states to use Diagram 2 which has the on deck circle on the sides of the field

Personnally I keep them on their side of the field and try to maitain a safe distance

[bob jenkins]

Leagues frequently have thier own rules. This league has one regarding on-deck circles. They aren't the only one (although it's more common at lower levels than at higher levels).

That said, I think 12' seems "too close" and the instance of moving from 45' "behind" the batter to 12' behind the batter (when MTD Jr.'s team was in the third base dugout) seems a little strange.

Mark -- you're an engineer. Go to "all" the games and gather data on where "line drive fouls" end up. Put it on a chart and use that to (help) determine the "safest" spot.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Leagues frequently have thier own rules. This league has one regarding on-deck circles. They aren't the only one (although it's more common at lower levels than at higher levels).

That said, I think 12' seems "too close" and the instance of moving from 45' "behind" the batter to 12' behind the batter (when MTD Jr.'s team was in the third base dugout) seems a little strange.

Mark -- you're an engineer. Go to "all" the games and gather data on where "line drive fouls" end up. Put it on a chart and use that to (help) determine the "safest" spot.

Bob:

The problem with this league is that there is no such league rule. League rules specifically state that the playing rules are NFHS. The league directors use the excuse that coaches have been doing it and they don't have a problem with violating the league playing rules.

The league is based in Temperance, Michigan (that state up north, , go Bucks!) and the UIC is not a MichiganHSAA registered umpire, so his knowledge of NFHS Baseball Rules has already been proven questionable and he definitely has any knowlege of officiating ethics.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

The problem with this league is that there is no such league rule. League rules specifically state that the playing rules are NFHS. The league directors use the excuse that coaches have been doing it and they don't have a problem with violating the league playing rules.

The league is based in Temperance, Michigan (that state up north, , go Bucks!) and the UIC is not a MichiganHSAA registered umpire, so his knowledge of NFHS Baseball Rules has already been proven questionable and he definitely has any knowlege of officiating ethics.

MTD, Sr.

It's one of those "who cares" rules - like the coach not being in the coaching box or F3 having a foot in foul ground in a hold-on. Just leave it alone unless someone complains.