Asking partner for help...

[TussAgee11]

Let me clarify what I'm asking.

If I'm PU, and I am 100% sure that the batter didn't swing, and now coach wants to appeal, how is granting the appeal ensuring that we are getting the call right? I know I had it right, and maybe my partner is 50/50 the other way on it. So now we're taking the call from somebody who is 100% sure and giving it to somebody who is 50/50 on it.

The numbers may be exaggerated, and perhaps this doesn't happen when working at a very high level as a professional umpire. But with some of the clowns in our association, I get very nervous on a check swing appeal when I know the batter didn't go. Perhaps if I'm working with a veteran I'm not as nervous.

I know I'm not reinventing the wheel here or anything, I guess I'll just never understand why the rule is that you MUST go to your partner.

And, for the record, didn't have a check swing appeal tonight Game 1 of post secret signals went just fine.

[TussAgee11]

Was just thinking about this more.

I guess it really doesn't matter if I understand it or not. The only way it would matter is so I could explain it to other people, but with the way I'm thinking about it now, no explanation would really work. There must be something at the core of my umpiring soul that is making me think about this issue in this manner... if anybody wants to address that be my guest; I'll be getting a Tarot reading tomorrow and will inform you all of how it goes.

Good night.

-Tuss

[ozzy6900]

Tuss, I don't know what is so hard about this whole thing! You call what you see and the defense asks for an appeal. If you are working OBR or NCAA you have to by rule and for FED, you should. It the rule - we don't make the rules, we enforce them! The coaches know this and in a way, they have a right to ask. When they do, we have a duty to go to our partner.

Which brings me to the "double secret, probation Santa Clause" signals. Listen, when I am on the bases, I have more than enough $hit to deal with out there! I get enough BS from players and coaches who don't agree with the interference or out call. I have to listen to coaches pi$$ and moan constantly about F3 pulling his foot and I have to deal with acrobatic outfielders that feel they have to drop and roll with every catch attempt while I am tied to the infield grass with an invisible leash! Then I have to deal with the "Pedro want-to-be" on the mound sticking his fingers in his mouth searching for that elusive lunger to place on the ball so he can be just like his idol. Along with this, I have to pay attention to your signals telling me if you are staying home or taking third base, we have an IF situation or a time play. And on top of all this, you want me to watch for a "soft or hard rise" from you? I'll tell you what, keep your soft & hard rise for your "intamate other", I'll just give you what I have on the checked swing while I deal with my indicator - yeah my indicator - because I'm old, have CRS and I am having trouble staying awake because F1 can't hit the zone to save his life and if the 3rd base coach gives me any more $hit I'm going to dump his a$$!!!!!!!

It may just be that I only have so many brain cells remaining, but an old and wise umpire gave me the best advice I ever received..........Keeping it simple, always benefits the CREW.

For me this makes both circumstances easier. If it's an older established partner I'm used to, I have a pretty solid idea of what he's looking to me for (and even 99% of the old timers just want what I have) if it's a newbie, or its HS season and I'm working with some less experienced guys I'm keeping it easy for me, and for him. Most coaches won't get to worked up over this call being switched if that's the case, you will usually hear more whining from the stands if from anywhere.

The Less I have to worry about looking for from my partner the more attention I can pay to the detail of the game that can and WILL get me in trouble. It runs paralell to the "expected call" scenario's. If a simple checking with your partner will keep the rats in their cage why not make it easier on both of us? I think in the past there was more of a tenor that allowing a partner to change that call would weaken the Plate Man's influence, I have to say the game has moved forward in peoples attitudes about this particular call and the acceptance of what might have been seen by a different set of eyes. My 2 pennies worth.
Tom

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I'll tell you what, keep your soft & hard rise for your "intamate other",

Dude, you're lucky I hadn't poured my coffee yet or you would be owing me a new keyboard, as I would have Asnered the coffee all over it.

[Welpe]

With apologies to Tee...Ozzy I think that ties for the best post on the internet.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Tuss, I don't know what is so hard about this whole thing! You call what you see and the defense asks for an appeal. If you are working OBR or NCAA you have to by rule and for FED, you should. It the rule - we don't make the rules, we enforce them! The coaches know this and in a way, they have a right to ask. When they do, we have a duty to go to our partner.

Which brings me to the "double secret, probation Santa Clause" signals. Listen, when I am on the bases, I have more than enough $hit to deal with out there! I get enough BS from players and coaches who don't agree with the interference or out call. I have to listen to coaches pi$$ and moan constantly about F3 pulling his foot and I have to deal with acrobatic outfielders that feel they have to drop and roll with every catch attempt while I am tied to the infield grass with an invisible leash! Then I have to deal with the "Pedro want-to-be" on the mound sticking his fingers in his mouth searching for that elusive lunger to place on the ball so he can be just like his idol. Along with this, I have to pay attention to your signals telling me if you are staying home or taking third base, we have an IF situation or a time play. And on top of all this, you want me to watch for a "soft or hard rise" from you? I'll tell you what, keep your soft & hard rise for your "intamate other", I'll just give you what I have on the checked swing while I deal with my indicator - yeah my indicator - because I'm old, have CRS and I am having trouble staying awake because F1 can't hit the zone to save his life and if the 3rd base coach gives me any more $hit I'm going to dump his a$$!!!!!!!

Great post, Ozzy!

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If I'm PU, and I am 100% sure that the batter didn't swing, and now coach wants to appeal, how is granting the appeal ensuring that we are getting the call right? I know I had it right, and maybe my partner is 50/50 the other way on it. So now we're taking the call from somebody who is 100% sure and giving it to somebody who is 50/50 on it.

If you are 100% sure you are correct you should be 100% sure that BU will echo. So what's to lose, 5 seconds and the coach sits down. If I am BU I give you my honest opinion and if my honest opinion is "I don't know" (ie 50/50) I am going to echo your call.

[TussAgee11]

Thanks Bob and DG - I see the light now better than before.

I'm sure by the end of the weekend this will sink in and I'll look back on my posts saying "what was I thinking!?"

So thanks for being patient and guiding me through the maze I had created in my own mind

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by DG

If you are 100% sure you are correct you should be 100% sure that BU will echo. So what's to lose, 5 seconds and the coach sits down. If I am BU I give you my honest opinion and if my honest opinion is "I don't know" (ie 50/50) I am going to echo your call.

I had this situation take place...

3-2 count on the batter, pitch misses low, batter brings his wrists down towards the plate but his bat was at about a 45 degree angle to the batter and not close to crossing the plate, so I balled the pitch. Catcher asks for an appeal so I yell "did he go?" to my partner who has his mind on where he is supposed to go (we were using 3 man system), and doesn't notice me appealing. I yell "(partner's name) did he go"? This time he hears me and calls it a swing.

[canadaump6]

I know an umpire who will never ask for help on a pulled foot. He believes the base umpire should be able to make that call. My question is how is an umpire going to be able to see a pulled foot from inside the infield? He could take a couple steps to get a better angle, but by the time he does this it is too late.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I know an umpire who will never ask for help on a pulled foot. He believes the base umpire should be able to make that call. My question is how is an umpire going to be able to see a pulled foot from inside the infield? He could take a couple steps to get a better angle, but by the time he does this it is too late.

Before anyone else rips into you for this one, I get my turn first.

I know an umpire who worked well over 3,000 games in his 21 years as an umpire, who asked for help on a pulled foot exactly twice.

That umpire is me.

The umpire that you know is correct. The base umpire absolutely should get his own calls, even when he is in the infield. If you can't see the pulled foot from the working area, then you are out of position. You need to be on an angle a bit closer to home plate from B so you don't get straight-lined. With the proper angle, which you should set up well in advance of the play at first, you can see everything, and should not need to ask for help.

For instance, when the ball is hit to F4, and you are in B with R1, you don't run toward 2nd base to call the first part of the DP. Your first move should be to step forward, turn with the ball as it passes you, and see the force at 2nd from there, not up close where you have no angle for the relay to 1st. You should see the play at 2nd while set, then move at an angle toward the 45 ft. line to get a few steps toward the angle you need to see F3's foot, which is what you focus on while listening for the ball. You can see all the pulled feet in the world from there. Same thing starting in C. Don't get too close to a force at 2nd, keeping a good sight angle for the nut-cutter you are more likely to have at 1st base.

Oh, the same goes for swipe tags at 1st. The BU should be able to get those himself too. It just looks a lot better.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I had this situation take place...

3-2 count on the batter, pitch misses low, batter brings his wrists down towards the plate but his bat was at about a 45 degree angle to the batter and not close to crossing the plate, so I balled the pitch. Catcher asks for an appeal so I yell "did he go?" to my partner who has his mind on where he is supposed to go (we were using 3 man system), and doesn't notice me appealing. I yell "(partner's name) did he go"? This time he hears me and calls it a swing.

So the partner was moving to his new position because of ball four, but he saw that it was a swing, even though he wasn't paying attention? Then, he doesn't anticipate that the defense would appeal, even though he thought the batter swung? Sounds kind of fishy to me.

If there is even the most remote chance that the batter may have offered, a good base umpire will begin to head to his position so as not to draw attention to an appeal, but he should be ready to quickly make his judgment immediately if asked for his opinion. The fact that you had to get his attention tells me he really didn't know either way, and shouldn't have rung the batter up if he didn't see it.