Asking partner for help...

[TussAgee11]

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

I'll tell you that I'll give you what I have either way. I don't believe in not changing a partner's call in this situation.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

this is not a secret to players and coaches at higher levels. if you do that you very well may be creating a lot of unnecessary crap for yourself.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

this is not a secret to players and coaches at higher levels. if you do that you very well may be creating a lot of unnecessary crap for yourself.

It hasn't caused any crap yet...

I only do it when it is deathly obvious that the batter didn't go, and the manager/catcher are just grasping for anything they can get. Used just in case partner had a bug in his eye or something

If there is a 1% chance that he could have gone, I'll gladly get some help. But sometimes, coaches/catchers know he didn't go and want the appeal anyway.

[SanDiegoSteve]

...or, "He didn't go, DID HE??"

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

It hasn't caused any crap yet...

I only do it when it is deathly obvious that the batter didn't go, and the manager/catcher are just grasping for anything they can get. Used just in case partner had a bug in his eye or something

If there is a 1% chance that he could have gone, I'll gladly get some help. But sometimes, coaches/catchers know he didn't go and want the appeal anyway.

The rule is intended to provide an honest second opinion. I ask my partners to do just that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

That type of "secret signal" went out a long, long time ago. It's now only used by those who are old-smitties. Don't be one of them.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

I hate secret signals. If I go to you "give me what you got". What's the big deal.

[TussAgee11]

I guess the big deal about going to your partner is you have to do it even if you know you are 100% correct. Where else in the game does this happen?

(turning smart *** on) If its "smittyish" or "old-timer" to have that secret signal, then I guess I was trained by a smitty old-time umpire who works NCAA ball and is considered the best umpire in our association (smart-*** off).

If it is actually wrong to do this, then I'll stop. I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

I'll always ask if asked, even for appeasement purposes, not only because of my training but because of the rule (at least in OBR). But it don't mean I gotta agree with it!

And, I don't agree with not having double secret probation signals in some circumstances. I'd love to hear where or why this started becoming smitty-ish, or why the mindset on this changed.

Honestly, not trying to be stubborn. Because of the comments made here I will no longer come up softly on a check swing appeal. I just am curious to know why or how this mindset started, and the rationale (so perhaps I can convince others in the association to follow suit...)

Game 1 of not coming up softly begins in an hour and 30 mins, so I better scoot... probably about Game 10 since I became a "peeker"

-Tuss

[archangel]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

Using secret signals to tell your partner not to disagree is just a way to circumvent the rule you dont like. How many different threads on rules have there been where ones have disagreed w/a rule but had to abide??? What if each one comes up w/ some signal to counteract it?
I guess I'm just not smart enough, considering that I work w/ multiple partners, and besides the normal pregame, would probably have trouble remembering a special thing my PU said, especially if it had to do with speed of a mechanic...I give what I see......

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

(turning smart *** on) If its "smittyish" or "old-timer" to have that secret signal, then I guess I was trained by a smitty old-time umpire who works NCAA ball and is considered the best umpire in our association (smart-*** off).

Ethics is not level related.

If it is actually wrong to do this, then I'll stop. I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

How is it wrong to follow the ruled?

And, I don't agree with not having double secret probation signals in some circumstances. I'd love to hear where or why this started becoming smitty-ish, or why the mindset on this changed.

It was back when we decided that it was coaches who could cheat, not umpires.

[TussAgee11]

Let me clarify what I'm asking.

If I'm PU, and I am 100% sure that the batter didn't swing, and now coach wants to appeal, how is granting the appeal ensuring that we are getting the call right? I know I had it right, and maybe my partner is 50/50 the other way on it. So now we're taking the call from somebody who is 100% sure and giving it to somebody who is 50/50 on it.

The numbers may be exaggerated, and perhaps this doesn't happen when working at a very high level as a professional umpire. But with some of the clowns in our association, I get very nervous on a check swing appeal when I know the batter didn't go. Perhaps if I'm working with a veteran I'm not as nervous.

I know I'm not reinventing the wheel here or anything, I guess I'll just never understand why the rule is that you MUST go to your partner.

And, for the record, didn't have a check swing appeal tonight Game 1 of post secret signals went just fine.

[TussAgee11]

Was just thinking about this more.

I guess it really doesn't matter if I understand it or not. The only way it would matter is so I could explain it to other people, but with the way I'm thinking about it now, no explanation would really work. There must be something at the core of my umpiring soul that is making me think about this issue in this manner... if anybody wants to address that be my guest; I'll be getting a Tarot reading tomorrow and will inform you all of how it goes.

Good night.

-Tuss

[ozzy6900]

Tuss, I don't know what is so hard about this whole thing! You call what you see and the defense asks for an appeal. If you are working OBR or NCAA you have to by rule and for FED, you should. It the rule - we don't make the rules, we enforce them! The coaches know this and in a way, they have a right to ask. When they do, we have a duty to go to our partner.

Which brings me to the "double secret, probation Santa Clause" signals. Listen, when I am on the bases, I have more than enough $hit to deal with out there! I get enough BS from players and coaches who don't agree with the interference or out call. I have to listen to coaches pi$$ and moan constantly about F3 pulling his foot and I have to deal with acrobatic outfielders that feel they have to drop and roll with every catch attempt while I am tied to the infield grass with an invisible leash! Then I have to deal with the "Pedro want-to-be" on the mound sticking his fingers in his mouth searching for that elusive lunger to place on the ball so he can be just like his idol. Along with this, I have to pay attention to your signals telling me if you are staying home or taking third base, we have an IF situation or a time play. And on top of all this, you want me to watch for a "soft or hard rise" from you? I'll tell you what, keep your soft & hard rise for your "intamate other", I'll just give you what I have on the checked swing while I deal with my indicator - yeah my indicator - because I'm old, have CRS and I am having trouble staying awake because F1 can't hit the zone to save his life and if the 3rd base coach gives me any more $hit I'm going to dump his a$$!!!!!!!

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If I'm PU, and I am 100% sure that the batter didn't swing, and now coach wants to appeal, how is granting the appeal ensuring that we are getting the call right? I know I had it right, and maybe my partner is 50/50 the other way on it. So now we're taking the call from somebody who is 100% sure and giving it to somebody who is 50/50 on it.

If you are 100% sure you are correct you should be 100% sure that BU will echo. So what's to lose, 5 seconds and the coach sits down. If I am BU I give you my honest opinion and if my honest opinion is "I don't know" (ie 50/50) I am going to echo your call.