Mets v Mariners

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

Any opinions on what Rungee did with beltran and manual? I have no problem with saying something to the effect off "stop arguing balls and strikes." maybe with a little more .... umph to it. Or just ignoring it... what ever the preference is. The problem I have is that instead of a quick word it turned into a conversation that got heated... then just before Rungee throws out the new manager for the mets.... He makes contact by stepping at the coach!!! then throws him out.... any thoughts?

Watched the video and all I have to say is they both deserved to go! The announcers BS about "umpire baiting" is full of $hit! Beltran was pi$$ing and moaning at the plate and Runge probably heard enough. If Manuel just stayed in the dugout and kept his mouth shut, it all would have been fine. Both Beltran and Manuel are long running complaining a$$holes anyway. Neither deserve to remain in any game for more than 5 minutes just on general principal!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

without knowing what was said... we'll never know... he ran them both but it was caused by how he handled Beltran...

Which I didn't like, IMO, he should've left his mask on and kept talking to Beltran saying something like "knock it off", or "that's enough" while cleaning off the plate, whatever needs to be said. Beltran was courteous enough to piss and moan without making a show about it, Runge could've taken the hint he didn't want to get run. By taking his mask off and making it obvious what he was doing it seemed like to me it created an unneeded issue.

Umpires normally leave their masks on until they have heard something that warrants an ejection. When that happens, the proper course of action is to remove the mask to make the ejection. Beltran probably called Runge a stupid pendejo or something similar. Contrary to popular fan and announcer opinion, umpires are not required to just stand there and take a bunch of crap. If you argue balls and strikes, you're done. If you come out of the dugout to defend a player who was ejected for arguing balls and strikes, you're done too. Very simple. Beltran obviously crossed the line, and Brian sent him packing.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Umpires normally leave their masks on until they have heard something that warrants an ejection. When that happens, the proper course of action is to remove the mask to make the ejection. Beltran probably called Runge a stupid pendejo or something similar. Contrary to popular fan and announcer opinion, umpires are not required to just stand there and take a bunch of crap. If you argue balls and strikes, you're done. If you come out of the dugout to defend a player who was ejected for arguing balls and strikes, you're done too. Very simple. Beltran obviously crossed the line, and Brian sent him packing.

yeah I think its the bump that looks REALLY bad not so much that he ran them.... balls and strikes shouldnt be argued ... I just think that it was poorly handled at least from the appearence of it all.

[LMan]

So, guessing you aren't out to sniff Runge's jock anytime soon?


Use more than a word or two to argue balls and strikes, you're done. Leave the dugout to do the same, you're done. Just sayin'...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

you don't know that... don't assume

as far as you know he said "Brian, I had that ball was down and in" or "Brian is that as far in as it goes?" or something of that sort and Runge became a smart @ss. That's a possibility.

You can see in the video that Beltran wasn't making a big deal about but was staying in the box and talking with his head down. He showed Runge respect in this manner.

He wasn't turned around screaming at Runge or anything of that sort... but we don't know what he said. Let's not assume anything.

Runge has a thing for finding sh!t or vice versa depending on how you wanna look at it... Last week he should've called the balk when Brendan Harris stepped out and ruled it a no pitch, but instead he decided to ring him up and then Gardenhire got ran. Now this. I'm just sayin...

Well, having both umpired his games as a HS player, and umpired with him on several occasions, I have never known Brian Runge to be a hothead that ejects for no good reason. To the contrary, I find him a bit too tolerant. That is what leads me to believe that Beltran may have said something inappropriate.

Yeah, let's not assume anything? Where did I assume anything? I said "probably." What does that assume? He probably did say something. Odds are that he did (that's what "probably" means). Players all the time cuss umpires under their breath to make the umpire look like the bad guy when they get ejected. You are making a big assumption thinking Beltran was pure as the driven snow and was merely suggesting that Brian was in error. Bull Excrement.

The umpires aren't out there to take a bunch of crap off these overpaid, underworked prima donna athletes. I'm just sayin'...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

if what he said warranted an ejection, meaning it was personal (used you) or something way over the line, then dump him. If not, go clean the plate off with mask on and tell him he's close to going or stay put and tell him to knock it off. No reason to take off his mask unless what he said deserved an ejection right away. When the mask goes so does somebody else. Runge elevated it. If Beltran said enough to get dumped then dump him or tell him to shut up, but don't try to make it in to a big scene like he did.

And for the record, I was raised a yankees fan, so I hate the Mets.

Edited to add: When a player or coach talks to you with their head down like that, that means they are not trying to show you up. They are telling you what they think without making a big scene because they don't want to show you up at that point. Trust me, I eject people for showing me up when it happens. But I also understand that if a coach comes to b!tch at me during a pitching change or some other time in which he would normally have to converse with me then I give him a little more leeway than normal because he showed me the respect to not do it in front of everybody else and to come to me, which means he's actually concerned with the call and not just being a douchebag to get his team riled up. If beltran said enough to get run, run him. If he didn't, then let him go or tell him to shut up. Runge made it into a show it didn't have to be.

What if he puts his head down and calls you a stupid MFer? Putting his head down doesn't mean he can stand there and say anything he wants. Guys in the ML don't overreact to a comment or two made with a head down, I'd prefer to assume that Beltran crossed some line and Runge wasn't going to let him get away with it.

[BaBa Booey]

Thoughts on the Jerry Manual bump?

[RPatrino]

After viewing the video, here is what I saw. Pitch was called strike 2, and Beltran didn't agree with the call and he was jawing with Runge. Runge apparently didn't like Beltrans jawboning him, so he took his mask off and engaged Beltran in a little conversation while cleaning the plate off. So far, so good, no EJ and the discussion is not over heated. Then Manual comes out apparently to object to Runge's talking to Beltran. If I'm Brian, I'm telling Manual I am going to talk to anyone I want to. Thats when the situation deteriorated. Beltran then started in on Brian and was tossed.

I probably would have left my mask on and cleaned the plate off while talking to Beltran. Had Runge done that, we might have had a different outcome. The bump on Manual looked incidental and not on purpose to me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

You shouldn't assume anything.

And neither should you or anyone else that wasn't privy to the conversation. That was my point.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

. Beltran probably called Runge a stupid pendejo or something similar.

I think you are probably right. Beltran should probably be suspended for that, but it most likely won't happen. Manuel, also, for making a poor situation worse.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by LMan

I think you are probably right. Beltran should probably be suspended for that, but it most likely won't happen. Manuel, also, for making a poor situation worse.

And Runge for making contact with Manuel?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And Runge for making contact with Manuel?

Okay, I've heard enough about the phantom "bump." I've watched the video 5 or 6 times now, from start to finish. After Brian cleaned the plate, he stood up to walk back behind the plate only to find Manuel between Beltran and the catcher. Manuel had no business out there whatsoever. His rat was arguing balls and strikes, so as head of rats he felt it was his duty to bring his ancient butt out there to argue. He is the one initiating contact with Runge by getting in his personal space. You don't get up in someone's face and expect to get away without a bit of contact.

Then, after a lengthy arguement in which Runge was his extra-patient usual self, Manuel started to walk away, still in the ballgame. Then, for some reason, as Runge didn't say a word, Manuel starts back at Runge and gets right up into his grill, nose-to-nose. Then Runge appears to distance himself and walk around Manuel to the right. That's when Manuel tried to block Runge off and a little contact occurred just before Runge gave him the heave-ho.

I saw no agressive bump or contact initiated by Runge, and I looked hard to find it. Fans see what they want to see, and judge situations by their emotions, and NOT by the facts.

The real culprit here was Jerry Manuel for leaving the bench. Beltran was going to get to say his peace and get back in the box, which is more rope than I would give him. Runge was trying to be civil with him, even though he kept running his mouth. Beltran got run for continuing arguing in Runge's face after the Manuel ejection. It wasn't really about balls and strikes at this point, it was about stupid ballplayers thinking that the can just do whatever they want to the umpires without penalty.

[Rita C]

I was listening to the radio when this happened. The announcers, Mariners employees, talked as if it were Manuel who initiated the bump.

Interesting that many think now it was Runge who initiated it. Maybe Mets fans?

Ria

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay, I've heard enough about the phantom "bump." I've watched the video 5 or 6 times now, from start to finish. After Brian cleaned the plate, he stood up to walk back behind the plate only to find Manuel between Beltran and the catcher. Manuel had no business out there whatsoever. His rat was arguing balls and strikes, so as head of rats he felt it was his duty to bring his ancient butt out there to argue. He is the one initiating contact with Runge by getting in his personal space. You don't get up in someone's face and expect to get away without a bit of contact.

Then, after a lengthy arguement in which Runge was his extra-patient usual self, Manuel started to walk away, still in the ballgame. Then, for some reason, as Runge didn't say a word, Manuel starts back at Runge and gets right up into his grill, nose-to-nose. Then Runge appears to distance himself and walk around Manuel to the right. That's when Manuel tried to block Runge off and a little contact occurred just before Runge gave him the heave-ho.

I saw no agressive bump or contact initiated by Runge, and I looked hard to find it. Fans see what they want to see, and judge situations by their emotions, and NOT by the facts.

The real culprit here was Jerry Manuel for leaving the bench. Beltran was going to get to say his peace and get back in the box, which is more rope than I would give him. Runge was trying to be civil with him, even though he kept running his mouth. Beltran got run for continuing arguing in Runge's face after the Manuel ejection. It wasn't really about balls and strikes at this point, it was about stupid ballplayers thinking that the can just do whatever they want to the umpires without penalty.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay, I've heard enough about the phantom "bump." I've watched the video 5 or 6 times now, from start to finish. After Brian cleaned the plate, he stood up to walk back behind the plate only to find Manuel between Beltran and the catcher. Manuel had no business out there whatsoever. His rat was arguing balls and strikes, so as head of rats he felt it was his duty to bring his ancient butt out there to argue. He is the one initiating contact with Runge by getting in his personal space. You don't get up in someone's face and expect to get away without a bit of contact.

Then, after a lengthy arguement in which Runge was his extra-patient usual self, Manuel started to walk away, still in the ballgame. Then, for some reason, as Runge didn't say a word, Manuel starts back at Runge and gets right up into his grill, nose-to-nose. Then Runge appears to distance himself and walk around Manuel to the right. That's when Manuel tried to block Runge off and a little contact occurred just before Runge gave him the heave-ho.

I saw no agressive bump or contact initiated by Runge, and I looked hard to find it. Fans see what they want to see, and judge situations by their emotions, and NOT by the facts.

The real culprit here was Jerry Manuel for leaving the bench. Beltran was going to get to say his peace and get back in the box, which is more rope than I would give him. Runge was trying to be civil with him, even though he kept running his mouth. Beltran got run for continuing arguing in Runge's face after the Manuel ejection. It wasn't really about balls and strikes at this point, it was about stupid ballplayers thinking that the can just do whatever they want to the umpires without penalty.

Well, I was a very happy M's fan, (not much to cheer about this season), so was in a great mood.

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

First of all, Beltran did not speak in a "non show-n up way." Where do you get this? He turned his head back to the umpire and looked right at him and began arguing balls and strikes. HE initiated the conversation, not the umpire. When you look back at the umpire and argue, that is showing him up. Players are taught to say their little BS remarks while facing away from the umpire, not to look right at him, making their displeasure obvious to all. He kept it up for a good 10 seconds before Brian had had enough. At that point Brian proceeded to brush the plate, a manuever that most umpires remove their masks to do. Beltran continued to talk sh!t while Brian brushed off the plate. Then like magic, Manuel appeared on the scene, beligerently blocking Brian's pathway.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

The umpire has the right to talk to any player he wants to, especially when that player starts the confrontation, as Beltran clearly did. The manager has no right to come out on the umpire, and certainly not to deliver an "Axx chewing." Do you let coaches chew you out? Wow. You come out on me and try to chew me out, you had better be wearing asbestos underwear, because I'll light ya a$$ up! Brain gave Manuel every chance to stay in the game, and Beltran was still in the game at that point.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

Classic? He barely brushed past him as he was about to run him. Manuel is the one who got in his path. What, the umpire is supposed to say excuse me and go around the d-head manager now? Look at the play closely, Manuel stepped right into Runge's path. Like I said, I watched this thing over and over, just to make sure I saw what happened.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Wow, how charitable of the little CSer.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

Get ready to poop, because he didn't do a damn thing out of line. Two clowns got in his business, and he showed great restraint in not running them both sooner.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

Wow, I need some of what you're smokin'.