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-   -   2-man mechanics (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/45523-2-man-mechanics.html)

aceholleran Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
I'll second this.

I'll give another play:

R2. Less than 2 outs. Sinking line drive bringing F9 to his right and forward. Diving catch.

As the BU, I have to make the catch/no catch my primary responsibility. While the nature of the catch may make a subsequent play at third difficult, if I'm the plate umpire, I'm reading that my partner is likely out of position now (at the edge of the infield grass between first and second) to get a good angle and distance for the play at third. I'm coming up. I'm also going to be lining up the tag at second since I know that the BU will need to stay with the play to make sure there's a legal catch. Now, I won't poach an appeal, but I will be prepared if I'm asked by my partner to get involved.

Game and situation sense is pretty darned important and mechanics are designed to cover a majority of situations, but I think it's important to be flexible in situations and to be a good partner.
I'm with you on this. Common sense says PU stays put, but in baseball, you never know.

ace

Rich Tue Jun 17, 2008 01:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire
While at times this may be correct, I don't believe this is one.

A play as simple and strightforward as the OP should be handled in standard fashion. If you have to deviate for a play like that you must be doing cartwheels and the dirty Sanchez on a truly surprising or complicated play.
The bar they go to at the beginning of the movie Dodgeball is called "The Dirty Sanchez." Priceless.

danreeves1973 Tue Jun 17, 2008 02:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire
While at times this may be correct, I don't believe this is one.

A play as simple and strightforward as the OP should be handled in standard fashion. If you have to deviate for a play like that you must be doing cartwheels and the dirty Sanchez on a truly surprising or complicated play.

Any thoughts on what sit. the Donkey Punch would be more appropriate than the Dirty Sanchez? :cool:

buckeyetc71 Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:33am
I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
If someone has the manual handy please correct me if I'm wrong.

mbyron Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:39am
I don't know anyone who uses the FED manual for anything other than a coaster.

jdmara Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyetc71
I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
If someone has the manual handy please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know how much these manuals change, hence, I asked the question. I have a manual from 2001-2002, and it says:

(p 44) PU...5. Call Safe/Out on R1 advancing after a caught fly ball, except a fly down the right-field line....

(p 45) BU...Move to line up the tag of R1 advancing to third after a caught fly ball; PU had the play at third...If PU has gone down the right-field line to rule catch/no catch or foul/fair, you must take R1 into third base.

I didn't know if the mechanic changed or if that mechanic isn't used.

mbyron-

lol...I guess that's why I have such an old manual ;)

-Josh

Rich Wed Jun 18, 2008 01:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyetc71
I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
If someone has the manual handy please correct me if I'm wrong.
I would, except mine hits the trash the second it arrives (as soon as I verify they still expect the PU to take third on a bases-empty triple when the BU doesn't go out.)

SanDiegoSteve Wed Jun 18, 2008 09:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyetc71
I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
If someone has the manual handy please correct me if I'm wrong.
What's a FED manual? We were never issued them nor mailed them. We used CCA and pro mechanics only. We always had a good laugh over the FED rule book's signal chart too.

DG Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:09pm
The original sitch was a fly ball in the V on 3b side with R2 only. BU has it all. Rich changed the sitch and I agree, in the changed sitch. As PU read the play and adjust. But for a normal fly ball in the V, BU has it all

DG Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyetc71
I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
FED manual also tells PU to watch "runner on 2B", R1 in the manual (sigh), touch 3b and be prepared to cover a play on him advancing to the plate or a play on him returning to 3B.

I don't throw it in the trash when I get it, but I don't pay it any attention until a question like this is asked.

Rich Thu Jun 19, 2008 06:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG
FED manual also tells PU to watch "runner on 2B", R1 in the manual (sigh), touch 3b and be prepared to cover a play on him advancing to the plate or a play on him returning to 3B.

I don't throw it in the trash when I get it, but I don't pay it any attention until a question like this is asked.
Oh, another reason I toss it. When they name runners normally (R1 is never on anything but first base) I may give it a second glance.

We work college/pro mechanics in HS games (those umpires around here that simply don't run into the outfield as base umpires on every fly ball, that is).

Fritz Thu Jun 19, 2008 02:15pm
since we're talking 2-man mechanics, here is another question that regularly gets debated among the crew around my area:

R3, 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to anticipate the next play on the infield which will generally be at 1B for the 3rd out. But that is not shown on most mechanics diagrams I've seen.

or,

R1 & R3, less than 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to be in a better position to call a double play attempt AND because most high school and below ball has 1st/3rd gimmick plays with the SS taking a short throw from the catcher where BU's C position is. Again, most mechanics diagrams put BU in C in this sitch.

What do you normally do and why?

bob jenkins Thu Jun 19, 2008 02:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
since we're talking 2-man mechanics, here is another question that regularly gets debated among the crew around my area:

R3, 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to anticipate the next play on the infield which will generally be at 1B for the 3rd out. But that is not shown on most mechanics diagrams I've seen.
I stay in C. I can get to the needed spot for a play at first just as easily from C as I can from B.



Quote:
R1 & R3, less than 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to be in a better position to call a double play attempt AND because most high school and below ball has 1st/3rd gimmick plays with the SS taking a short throw from the catcher where BU's C position is. Again, most mechanics diagrams put BU in C in this sitch.

What do you normally do and why?
I'm in B whenver a steal of second is possible.

David B Thu Jun 19, 2008 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
since we're talking 2-man mechanics, here is another question that regularly gets debated among the crew around my area:

R3, 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to anticipate the next play on the infield which will generally be at 1B for the 3rd out. But that is not shown on most mechanics diagrams I've seen.

or,

R1 & R3, less than 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to be in a better position to call a double play attempt AND because most high school and below ball has 1st/3rd gimmick plays with the SS taking a short throw from the catcher where BU's C position is. Again, most mechanics diagrams put BU in C in this sitch.

What do you normally do and why?
I've seen this a lot also, but I stay in B most all of the time anyway with 2-man.

Second situation, I'm with Bob. If there is a DP chance, I'm staying in B.

Reason - I've tried other ways, and this is what I've found works very well for me.

Thanks
David


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