2-man mechanics
 

I've had this situation come up a few times the past week with the same partner. Everytime I end up getting burned on the situation. Now this will be discussed in the pre-game but I really thought it was a fluke the first time.

Here is the situation (FED):

R2 on second with a long fly ball him into the "Outfield V" (Center field on the right side of third). The BU has the catch/no catch call since the ball is in the "V". R2 tags up to advance to third base. Who has the possible play at third base? What is the proper rotation? Thanks

-Josh

Base umpire has tag at second and play at third. There is no rotation.

While I agree with Gordon, this is one of the mechanics that varies by area. So, do what others in your assoication /league do.

This situation has just happened recently so I haven't asked anyone in the association. I'll ask one of them tonight that I am working with. I was just curious what you all do. I guess I am the one getting burned because I am not covering properly. I was the BU both times this has happened and I assumed (I know, terrible word to use) the PU would rotate over the third. He did not, in both cases, and I made the call at third way out of position but I sold it well.:o

If I am the PU, I always rotate to third. Which I now realize is the wrong mechanic. Thanks for the clarification gentleman!:cool:

-Josh

How did it burn you?

Regardless of how many times I work with my regular partners, I'll give my partner on the plate the stop sign while communicating "I have it all."

I say I got burned because I was still by second both times I made the call. After seeing my partner at home, I knew I had to make the call. I should say I was out of position. I know both times I made the correct call because the tag was missed *shew*

I am learning a lot this year since I'm not working with a regular partner. Before, I knew exactly where my partner was going to be.

-Josh

Josh, do you have 'pre-game' time with your partner? This is where you agree on what you will do in these situations. Generally, with R2 only, base ump has catch,tag up and advance into 3rd.

With R1 and R2, then things get a little dicey. I'm curious, how would you think this sitch should be handled? Assume a fly ball in the "V" and then assume a fly ball down the RF line (this is a quiz). LOL

Same here. Communication is the key. Also discussing coverages throroughly in the pre-game can cut down on these embarrasing double coverages. With R2 only, the BU should be able to take all plays on R2 at 2nd and 3rd on a tag-up situation.

On a side note, I always found it a bit irritating when the guy who, as PU, insisted in always coming up the 3rd baseline to "help ya out" when he wasn't supposed to be there, is the same guy that is never there at 3rd base on a 1st to 3rd coverage when he is supposed to be. Never fails.:rolleyes:

Of course I had pre-game time. It just so happens this happened twice in the same game. I figured it was a misunderstanding the first time it happened so we had a little pow-wow between half innings (which I never do). We decided he would come up the line to help out if it's on the right side of second, but within the "V". Of course, the next time the exact situation happened, there was nobody there again. I was just curious what the mechanic actually is.

With a fly ball down the right field line, PU would take the catch and BU takes the tag-up at second and plays at 2nd and 3rd. That I always discuss in the pre-game. I guess I'm just going to have to add the other;)

Thanks gentleman!

-Josh

The little things make all the difference. Even when discussing things in pre-game in the heat of battle often things are forgotten.

As Rich suggests, a simple stop sign will remind PU that I've got it. That simple communication helps no matter who the partner is.

As PU I always start moving towards third just in case BU forgets and then I am able to move and cover the play "after saying I've got third"

If BU is covering the play I can always move back and no one notices the difference.

In a perfect world, pre-game covers lots of things, but in the real world, letting someone know where you are going, are at etc., can cover a multitude of mistakes.

Especially when you happen to have a new or inexperienced partner.

Thanks
David

Josh,
This is actually a very good question as bob jenkins said it can vary depending on where you are and the level of partner you have.

BU the book this is not a rotation play and the BU should have both plays. That being said I don't know how many times where I've been in this situation either as BU or PU and the PU take the play at third. The key is communication. As BU you should believe that both plays are yours until you hear from your partner he's got third. Once you hear he's taking third give him a quick glance and make sure he really is there then you can give up your responsibilities at third.

From the PU stand point that high fly ball in the V can put your partner in a situation where he doesn't have optimum coverage for a play at third. Read the play if you can be at third, then get there. You have no other responsibilities. Then communicate with your partner that you've got third and get an acknowledgement. The last thing you want and need is 2 people on one play.

While this is not an in the book rotation situation it is being a good partner. The key here is communication.

I'll second this.

I'll give another play:

R2. Less than 2 outs. Sinking line drive bringing F9 to his right and forward. Diving catch.

As the BU, I have to make the catch/no catch my primary responsibility. While the nature of the catch may make a subsequent play at third difficult, if I'm the plate umpire, I'm reading that my partner is likely out of position now (at the edge of the infield grass between first and second) to get a good angle and distance for the play at third. I'm coming up. I'm also going to be lining up the tag at second since I know that the BU will need to stay with the play to make sure there's a legal catch. Now, I won't poach an appeal, but I will be prepared if I'm asked by my partner to get involved.

Game and situation sense is pretty darned important and mechanics are designed to cover a majority of situations, but I think it's important to be flexible in situations and to be a good partner.

There is no rotation with R2 only. BU has it all.

Rotation comes into play with R2/R1, less than two out. Trying to change the standard rotation in a pregame is patchwork umpiring and will lead to getting burned.

That sounds good in theory but is not the key, read Rich's post above.

Flexibility is the key, and you will not get burned when you communicate.

Thanks
David

While at times this may be correct, I don't believe this is one.

A play as simple and strightforward as the OP should be handled in standard fashion. If you have to deviate for a play like that you must be doing cartwheels and the dirty Sanchez on a truly surprising or complicated play.

I'm with you on this. Common sense says PU stays put, but in baseball, you never know.

ace

The bar they go to at the beginning of the movie Dodgeball is called "The Dirty Sanchez." Priceless.

Any thoughts on what sit. the Donkey Punch would be more appropriate than the Dirty Sanchez? :cool:

I don't have my NFHS Umpire Manual with me but I believe in the two man mechanics section this IS a rotation situation for FED. PU rotates to third for possible play and BU watches tag, ensures R2 is going to third and, in case of bad throw to third, rotates to home for possible play there.
If someone has the manual handy please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know anyone who uses the FED manual for anything other than a coaster.

I don't know how much these manuals change, hence, I asked the question. I have a manual from 2001-2002, and it says:

(p 44) PU...5. Call Safe/Out on R1 advancing after a caught fly ball, except a fly down the right-field line....

(p 45) BU...Move to line up the tag of R1 advancing to third after a caught fly ball; PU had the play at third...If PU has gone down the right-field line to rule catch/no catch or foul/fair, you must take R1 into third base.

I didn't know if the mechanic changed or if that mechanic isn't used.

mbyron-

lol...I guess that's why I have such an old manual ;)

-Josh

I would, except mine hits the trash the second it arrives (as soon as I verify they still expect the PU to take third on a bases-empty triple when the BU doesn't go out.)

What's a FED manual? We were never issued them nor mailed them. We used CCA and pro mechanics only. We always had a good laugh over the FED rule book's signal chart too.

The original sitch was a fly ball in the V on 3b side with R2 only. BU has it all. Rich changed the sitch and I agree, in the changed sitch. As PU read the play and adjust. But for a normal fly ball in the V, BU has it all

FED manual also tells PU to watch "runner on 2B", R1 in the manual (sigh), touch 3b and be prepared to cover a play on him advancing to the plate or a play on him returning to 3B.

I don't throw it in the trash when I get it, but I don't pay it any attention until a question like this is asked.

Oh, another reason I toss it. When they name runners normally (R1 is never on anything but first base) I may give it a second glance.

We work college/pro mechanics in HS games (those umpires around here that simply don't run into the outfield as base umpires on every fly ball, that is).

since we're talking 2-man mechanics, here is another question that regularly gets debated among the crew around my area:

R3, 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to anticipate the next play on the infield which will generally be at 1B for the 3rd out. But that is not shown on most mechanics diagrams I've seen.

or,

R1 & R3, less than 2 outs; BU sets up in B not C to be in a better position to call a double play attempt AND because most high school and below ball has 1st/3rd gimmick plays with the SS taking a short throw from the catcher where BU's C position is. Again, most mechanics diagrams put BU in C in this sitch.

What do you normally do and why?

I stay in C. I can get to the needed spot for a play at first just as easily from C as I can from B.



I'm in B whenver a steal of second is possible.

I've seen this a lot also, but I stay in B most all of the time anyway with 2-man.

Second situation, I'm with Bob. If there is a DP chance, I'm staying in B.

Reason - I've tried other ways, and this is what I've found works very well for me.

Thanks
David