Frozen Leg Balk

[Fritz]

Need some help resolving a discussion my partner and I had last night.

LHP, R1, OBR; pitcher lifts his front leg straight up and stops, holding for a couple of counts to freeze the runner, then continues toward home (good balance skills). I'm BU and immediately call Balk. DC comes out to ask for an explanation and I state the pitcher must make a continuous motion in delivering a pitch. He says it can't be a balk because he teaches all his LHPs that move as a way to hold the runner close (I'm still looking for that exception in the rule book, the one that cancels a balk if the coach teaches his players an illegal move!).

Anyway, he goes back and game progresses without incident. After the game, my partner and I debate why even do the frozen leg manuever if by doing so, it forces you to step toward the base to pick off the runner. Seems like as soon as the runner sees the stop, he should immediately head back to the bag ahead of the throw and wait for the balk call when the pitcher goes ahead and throws home.

We went through both FED and OBR rule books but couldn't find a specific reference to the freeze move, just the citations about an uninterrupted move associated with a delivery of the pitch.

Comments/assistance?

[RPatrino]

That's a balk. If the coach teaches his pitchers to not come set, would that negate the balk? LOL

[LMan]

Its a balk if ALL his body parts come to a halt. Its not as long as some limb is moving during the delivery.

Now, if he really froze like a statue, you have a balk.

[jdmara]

Balk...What a great argument from the coach HA!

-Josh

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I really get a laugh from coaches who teach their players to do things illegally. My experience is with that is in basketball though. I remember watching the home team warm up before a preseason varsity scrimmage. Team H's center was being taught to knock the defender's arm out of the way so she could recieve the entry pass from the point guard. I told my partners I wanted to make the first call on H's center because I knew that H's head coach could be a real !@#$%^&*, . And boy was he when I made that first foul call against his center for knocking the defender's arm out of the way.

MTD, Sr.

[jicecone]

Fritz, continous motion is the key here. This is simlar to the hanging knee.

I once had a short stop throwing infield dirt at R2 and when I requested it to stop, the coach came out and said show me where this can't be done , it happens all the time in the PROS (??) and encouraged the player not to listen to me.

I told the coach that when his player got to the pros he could do whatever they allowed but if it happens again in the game both him and the player could discuss how legal it was in the rules , on their way home.

Some people like to learn the hard way.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Fritz, continous motion is the key here. This is simlar to the hanging knee.

I once had a short stop throwing infield dirt at R2 and when I requested it to stop, the coach came out and said show me where this can't be done , it happens all the time in the PROS (??) and encouraged the player not to listen to me.

I told the coach that when his player got to the pros he could do whatever they allowed but if it happens again in the game both him and the player could discuss how legal it was in the rules , on their way home.

Some people like to learn the hard way.

Why doesn't it surprise me that a rat would try to defend such bush league bu11$hit.


Tim.

[mbyron]

Certainly the coach's rationale is BS: "it's not a balk because that's how I taught it." Ha.

However, you need to be cautious calling this one: if ANY body part is moving the least little bit while the leg is frozen, then it IS legal. The hands, the head, the foot waggling... you get the point.

When I call balks I announce the reason in 5 words or less before I place the runners: in this case "Balk! Time! Started and stopped! You, second base!"

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mbyron

When I call balks I announce the reason in 5 words or less before I place the runners: in this case "Balk! Time! Started and stopped! You, second base!"

Great advice. There's no reason to put on a clinic at the mound. The less you say, the better.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Fritz

DC comes out to ask for an explanation and I state the pitcher must make a continuous motion in delivering a pitch. He says it can't be a balk because he teaches all his LHPs that move as a way to hold the runner close (I'm still looking for that exception in the rule book, the one that cancels a balk if the coach teaches his players an illegal move!).

In the words of a good friend of mine when confronted with this argument: "Coach, if you are going to teach your pitcher to cheat, don't get upset when I catch him"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I once had a short stop throwing infield dirt at R2 and when I requested it to stop, the coach came out and said show me where this can't be done , it happens all the time in the PROS (??) and encouraged the player not to listen to me.

I told the coach that when his player got to the pros he could do whatever they allowed but if it happens again in the game both him and the player could discuss how legal it was in the rules , on their way home.

While I haven't seen an infielder throw dirt at a runner, you do see them kick dirt at the runner, pound their gloves at them, etc. all the time in the majors. Maybe that was what the coach really saw, and was simply exaggerating like coaches are wont to do.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by mbyron

However, you need to be cautious calling this one: if ANY body part is moving the least little bit while the leg is frozen, then it IS legal. The hands, the head, the foot waggling... you get the point.

Sorry for any confusion, frozen leg/hanging knee, that is what I am talking about. Pitcher came set, lifted his leg/knee and then stopped it in the air, no other body movement.

So, if he does this and then throws to the base, we don't have a balk because he hasn't delivered a pitch?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Sorry for any confusion, frozen leg/hanging knee, that is what I am talking about. Pitcher came set, lifted his leg/knee and then stopped it in the air, no other body movement.

So, if he does this and then throws to the base, we don't have a balk because he hasn't delivered a pitch?

I still have a balk if he stops all motion. A pitch/pick-off attempt must me made in one continuous motion.

-Josh

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Sorry for any confusion, frozen leg/hanging knee, that is what I am talking about. Pitcher came set, lifted his leg/knee and then stopped it in the air, no other body movement.

So, if he does this and then throws to the base, we don't have a balk because he hasn't delivered a pitch?

Forget the throw to a base, he's balked for not delivering in a continuous motion. Separate items here.

[Robert E. Harrison]

The pitcher in the set position has to come to a complete and discernable stop. From there, the motion must be continuous either to the base or to home with the appropriate step before the throw or pitch.