The Scissors

[BigUmp56]

I've watched three NCAA super regional games today and in all of them the PU's were using the scissors. I thought that with the exception of the guy calling the Miami/Arizona game they looked pretty solid back there. Is this stance still common place in NCAA ball? I don't see many HS umpires or below using it at all, so I was a bit surprised to see it used so well today. Do any of you still use the scissors?


FWIW - I made a thread earlier and said they were using the knee, and deleted it. It was the scissors they were using.......


Tim.

[DG]

I watched 6 games of a regional last weekend. Took a lot of mental notes.

The first 2 plate guys worked heel to toe, wore black masks and pads, and both were "pointers". They were very methodical (ie slow) to make the point. I began to wonder because I use doeskins, the hammer, and work GD.

The 3rd guy wore black mask and used the scissors and the point and was also methodical.

The 4th guy wore doeskins (finally), heel to toe, and the hammer and we was quick about it.

The 5th and 6th guys worked heel to toe, doeskins and pointed.

So we had 3 black mask and pads, 3 black mask with doeskins, 5 pointers, 1 scissors, 5 heel to toes, and 1 hammer and 5 pointers.

I also noticed they were all very diligent about keeping the batter in the box, and keeping loose equipment and players in the dugout. I mean no donut on the ground outside the dugout went unnoticed. This was clearly different from some regular season games I saw so I figured they had been schooled by NCAA.

All of them called time before dusting the plate with back to the pitcher. And none of them had any problem putting the ball back in play promptly. An earlier thread would suggest they were all Smitty's for doing so.

[charliej47]

About the only time I call "time" to clean the plate is if it is covered from a slide. During normal play the plate will seldum get covered. After the throw to second I'll clean the plate before I call for the batter.

[lawump]

I work the scissors exclusively...HS, college or whatever.

[David B]

Originally Posted by DG

I watched 6 games of a regional last weekend. Took a lot of mental notes.

The first 2 plate guys worked heel to toe, wore black masks and pads, and both were "pointers". They were very methodical (ie slow) to make the point. I began to wonder because I use doeskins, the hammer, and work GD.

The 3rd guy wore black mask and used the scissors and the point and was also methodical.

The 4th guy wore doeskins (finally), heel to toe, and the hammer and we was quick about it.

The 5th and 6th guys worked heel to toe, doeskins and pointed.

So we had 3 black mask and pads, 3 black mask with doeskins, 5 pointers, 1 scissors, 5 heel to toes, and 1 hammer and 5 pointers.

I also noticed they were all very diligent about keeping the batter in the box, and keeping loose equipment and players in the dugout. I mean no donut on the ground outside the dugout went unnoticed. This was clearly different from some regular season games I saw so I figured they had been schooled by NCAA.

All of them called time before dusting the plate with back to the pitcher. And none of them had any problem putting the ball back in play promptly. An earlier thread would suggest they were all Smitty's for doing so.

Good information though. I too have seen less and less of the scissors in our area, but it must still be used elsewhere.

Most of the guys I know that used it have changed because it is hard on the back and knees.

GLad to see them keeping things clean, that is one area that many good umpires are slack in.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

The change will take some time.

As we know only specific umpires at the AAA Professional level have been allowed to continue with the scissors.

We also know that "most" top rated college umpires are now ex-Minor League umpires. As the curent group of CWS umpires ages they will eventually be replaced by the released MiLB guys. By training many of them will be non-scissor guys.

We all know that the scissor is a slowly dieing stance.

What the future brings will be interesting.

Regards,

[DG]

The ump working tonight's Miami-Arizona game is working the scissors, but he is going down on the back knee on almost every pitch.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by DG

The ump working tonight's Miami-Arizona game is working the scissors, but he is going down on the back knee on almost every pitch.

I'm pretty sure that stance where the guy puts he knee on the ground is called the knee

[JRutledge]

I do not think there is a "standard" that everyone has to follow. I do not think there is a one size fits all stance in a conference let alone in the NCAA. We are not talking about pro ball where to move through the ranks you have to be evaluated by the same system.

Peace

[zebra2955]

I was reading somewhere, can't remember where. It said that umpires working the scissors developed neck problems. That the stance makes you tilt your head in an unnatural way. Has any one else heard of this. I also heard MLB is keeping track of foul balls hit off the mask to see if this has anything to do with umpires developing neck problems. I heard that Mark Carlson had surgery that he believes is a result of foul balls.

[DG]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I'm pretty sure that stance where the guy puts he knee on the ground is called the knee

It sure started out looking like the scissors until he goes down during the pitch. And I thought the "knee" was for little league.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by DG

The ump working tonight's Miami-Arizona game is working the scissors, but he is going down on the back knee on almost every pitch.

Originally Posted by DG

And I thought the "knee" was for little league.

He must be doing something right, the umpire you saw is Jim Garman, and he has been assigned as the crew chief for the CWS this year, and it is his seventh time to go. He has had 27 regionals and 9 supers, I guess it is working fine for him.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

And I thought the "knee" was for little league.

Where did you hear this?

Signed,

Wally Bell, Tim McClelland, Brian Runge and Joe Brinkman (Okay, so 3 of 4 eventually switched to something else, but you get the point).

[fwump]

At a clinic earlier this year we were told by Rob Drake that MLB is discouraging the scissors out of fear of injury to the vertebrae of the neck from foul balls off the mask/HSM. Your head stays locked and rigid and the energy of the impact is absorbed by the neck.

Mike C

[bob jenkins]

NCAA Softball officials all do things the same way: They are too rigid, too robotic.

NCAA Baseball officials all do things differently: Can't there be any standards?

Lah me.