BR gets tagged after overrunning 1stbase

[_Bruno_]

hi,
BR beats the throw to 1stbase but does not touch it.
while he walks back to 1stbase, F3 tags him without making an appeal like "he didnt touch the bag" or anything else that makes clear, why he tags the runner.

do we call an out here ?

[mbyron]

Signal "safe" when the runner beats the ball to 1B, even though he misses the base. When BR misses the bag, I verbalize nothing, just signal.

When F3 tags BR, for me that's an unmistakeable appeal: why else would F3 be tagging him? I don't need a verbal announcement of intent: I'm banging the out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

hi,
BR beats the throw to 1stbase but does not touch it.
while he walks back to 1stbase, F3 tags him without making an appeal like "he didnt touch the bag" or anything else that makes clear, why he tags the runner.

do we call an out here ?

It's an appeal. It needs to be clear. In some instances, the act of the tag itself might be clear enough (because there's rarely otherwise a tag of BR after overruning first). At some lower-level games, you might get away with asking,"What are you doing?" If the answer is "just playing games" or "seeing if the runner made an attempt toward second", then it's not an out.

[dino14]

What if he simply touched the bag?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by dino14

What if he simply touched the bag?

nope.

[umpjong]

In both of these cases, (either tagging him or tagging the base) you have an out. His action of tagging him or the base is an appeal. Im also not going to signal safe as he runs by due to the fact that I have nothing yet.

I've also got an out if the runner steps over the bag just before F3 catches the ball with his foot on the bag. Simple mechanics are your out you missed the base.

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by umpjong

In both of these cases, (either tagging him or tagging the base) you have an out. His action of tagging him or the base is an appeal. Im also not going to signal safe as he runs by due to the fact that I have nothing yet.

I've also got an out if the runner steps over the bag just before F3 catches the ball with his foot on the bag. Simple mechanics are your out you missed the base.

Uhh, I'm pretty sure your wrong on both of these.

Scratch that. I know you're wrong on both of these.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by umpjong

In both of these cases, (either tagging him or tagging the base) you have an out. His action of tagging him or the base is an appeal. Im also not going to signal safe as he runs by due to the fact that I have nothing yet.

I've also got an out if the runner steps over the bag just before F3 catches the ball with his foot on the bag. Simple mechanics are your out you missed the base.

umpjong,

As in all things, do as you think best - but you will be WRONG.

Now, I'll grant you that there is credible difference of opinion as to whether or not a tag of the base can "properly constitute" an appeal in this sitch (I don't think so, but some other people who know a lot about this stuff think it can) so we'll just say, "OK" on that one.

Now, if the batter-runner passes the bag without touching it and the F3 subsequently tags the base, the runner is, by rule, safe until the defense properly appeals. (See Rule 7.10).

The "simple" mechanic may be to do as you suggest, but the proper mechanic is to signal SAFE!.

JM