Fed. HBP

[MadCityRef]

POE from NFHS this year regarding the batter allowing himself to be hit by the pitch.
Rule book says he must make every effort to avoid the pitch.

The NF/Referee handout states, "...a batter must make an attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch, regardless of the location. A batter who does not move to avoid shall not be awarded first."

If a batter leans into the pitch trying to get hit, yeah I'm keeping at the plate. My topic of discussion is the pitch into the batter's box and the batter doesn't move (or freezes) to avoid it. Would you keep him at the plate in that situation?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

My topic of discussion is the pitch into the batter's box and the batter doesn't move (or freezes) to avoid it. Would you keep him at the plate in that situation?

I'm going to award first on the HPB, unless it's blatantly obvious to me that the batter had ample opportunity to avoid the pitch and chose not to..........


Tim.

[JJ]

In Illinois we get to decide if the batter freezes because he wanted to get hit by the pitch or because he was fooled by the pitch. It's called umpiring.

JJ

[etn_ump]

If the pitcher can't keep from throwing the ball in the batter's box and it hits the batter, if I am behind the plate, the batter is going to first.

[UmpJM]

I find myself in agreement with Tim and etn_ump.

If the pitcher throws a pitch in the batter's box, the batter is getting ALL the "benefit of the doubt".

As JJ suggests, it's at least theoretically possible that a batter could do something that would "keep him in the box" - but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

POE from NFHS this year regarding the batter allowing himself to be hit by the pitch.
Rule book says he must make every effort to avoid the pitch.

The rule book does not say "every effort," but rather, as you go on to quote, "an effort." As far as I'm concerned, in most cases it doesn't have to be much of an effort at all -- as long as he doesn't move into the pitch.

I agree that we have to judge between freezing on a pitch and waiting to be hit.

[ManInBlue]

There are several coaches around here that hve done a good job training their kids to "take one for the team" - it is usually quite obvious when the batter has decided to get hit. I've seen several that freeze on the slow breaking curve ball - you know that one where he had time to call his mother, drink a Coke, smoke a cigarette and STILL get out of the way, but doesn't. Happens quite frequently, especially in the bigger schools.

I agree with giving him the base on 95% + of the HBP. Besides, it doesn't take much to make an effort and it's my decision whether or not he made that effort.

[DG]

Actually, the Rulebook POE says "every attempt to avoid" The rule says the batter shall not "permit a pitched ball to touch him." I have no problem leaving a batter in the box if he doesn't move AT ALL. FED is not the NCAA where the box belongs to the batter, regardless. FED wants to reduce injuries and rewarding this tactic does not do that.

I recall maybe 2 times last year when I kept the batter in the box and I did not try to determine if he was frozen or just trying to get hit. I saw what everybody in the park saw, ie no attempt AT ALL to avoid the pitch. I calculate 2 times last year to be less than 0.1 % of the batters I saw.

One of the coaches tried to argue he was frozen and I told him he had time to take a break on that pitch. The other coach just argued and then said he had to because the player's dad was in the stands and he would expect him to.

[dash_riprock]

FED book describes the action in 2 places: 7.3.4. "A batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him," and 8.1.1.d. "A batter becomes a runner, blah blah blah "provided ...if (sic) he makes no effort to avoid being hit..." OBR is effectively identical (without the bad grammar).

NCAA is similar but it specifically exempts the batter from the 'must make an attempt' rule if the pitch is "clearly inside the vertical lines of the batter's box," in which case the batter gets 1st if he "freezes." NCAA A.R. specifically says the batter does not get the base if he "intentionally gets touched by moving or rolling any part of the body into the pitch...," implying (at least to me) that the umpire has some latitude in determining whether an effort is required, and if so, how much, to get the base.

I like the NCAA way. I also so see no reason to call this differently in other codes.

[David B]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

I find myself in agreement with Tim and etn_ump.

If the pitcher throws a pitch in the batter's box, the batter is getting ALL the "benefit of the doubt".

As JJ suggests, it's at least theoretically possible that a batter could do something that would "keep him in the box" - but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

JM

I think JJ said it best, we have to umpire. That's what we are there for.

You will know it when player does not attempt to avoid the pitch, so will everyone else in the park.

Umpire the game, don't make it too difficult.

I'm sure FED has a reason for the change, probably because umpires were not calling the obvious ones.

Thansk
David

[mbyron]

I will add this for newer umpires: if you have ANY doubt whatever about whether to award 1B, you should award the base. Everyone expects HBP to go to 1B, and you've to to sell the call to make him stay. The expected call is not always the right one, but you'd better be sure you're right.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I will add this for newer umpires: if you have ANY doubt whatever about whether to award 1B, you should award the base. Everyone expects HBP to go to 1B, and you've to to sell the call to make him stay. The expected call is not always the right one, but you'd better be sure you're right.

I'll correct this for new umpires. If you have a breaking ball or a moving fasball, award the HBP; if not, especially with the teaching of crowding the plate, put that batter back in the box with:

"No, back in the box!"

When I played, it was no big deal to let a pitch slide an inch or so off your jersey, under the arm, w/e. MOF, it was a guage of how we were reading pitches and a "in your face" to the pitcher who might be trying to intimidate.

Level of ball dictates how you handle HBP but at the higher levels, veryone knows what's happening and if you get ajackass trying to play possum with HBP, put his pssarse back in thebox.

Kudos to Interested Dump who taught me this,

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

If the pitcher can't keep from throwing the ball in the batter's box and it hits the batter, if I am behind the plate, the batter is going to first.

Hallo Rocky Top!

The box is tight to the plate, pitcher has rights to toss off the plate, B's like to take more space than they deserve sometimes.

Careful with this set in concrete attitude, real baseball is never set in anayh concrete

[DG]

I got a new one for new and old. Pitch is inside, doesn't matter if curve, fastball, knuckle ball, or whatever. Batter doesn't move AT ALL, no duck, squat, shoulder turn, twitch, etc. No movement whatsover, NADA. These guys stay in the box, along with the ones that lean into a pitch. I promise it is less than 0.1% of the at bats you will see, but the batter must make an effort to do SOMETHING in FED. A frozen statue goes to 1B in NCAA, in FED he should stay in the box.

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by DG

I got a new one for new and old.

I seriously doubt that you do but go ahead......

Pitch is inside, doesn't matter if curve, fastball, knuckle ball, or whatever.

Yes, it most positively does matter.

Batter doesn't move AT ALL, no duck, squat, shoulder turn, twitch, etc. No movement whatsover, NADA. These guys stay in the box, along with the ones that lean into a pitch. I promise it is less than 0.1% of the at bats you will see, but the batter must make an effort to do SOMETHING in FED. A frozen statue goes to 1B in NCAA, in FED he should stay in the box.

There is a thread called "Intelligence and Flexibility".

Read it.