intervening play

[_Bruno_]

what i wanted to say is, that J/R and PBUC are different.
if the runners have already reached their advanced base before the interference with an intervening play, J/R sends them back to their TOP base. PBUC sends them to their TOI base !

[greymule]

I looked in my J/R briefly, but I don't see those plays. I'll try again when I have the time.

But those plays don't make any sense, unless INT is different from every other kind of out, and actually gives the offense an advantage.

Abel on 3B, 2 outs. Baker hits a one-hopper back to F1. F1 foolishly throws home in an attempt to get Abel, who slides across the plate safe. Then F2 throws to F3 in time to get Baker. Everybody knows Abel's run doesn't score.

Same situation, except that F2's throw hits Baker running outside the lane. Now the run scores?

Something's wrong here.

[DG]

J/R clearly says TOP in my 2004 version.

MLBUM and PBUC say TOI. Evans says professional interpretation supersedes the rulebook comment that "in the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch", in the case of an intervening play.

So, I agree that J/R (2004 version) and MLBUM/PBUC/Evans are in conflict and I think it best to go with the more logical interpretation of TOI. In this case, with 2 outs BR who interfered with the catch before reaching 1B is out and no runs score. With less than 2 outs BR is out, runner from 3rd scores and any other runners return to base at TOI.

[greymule]

That's quite logical, DG. My problem is with that last play Bruno cited, where the run scores even though the BR is the third out for INT before reaching 1B, as if it's a time play. Is that in the J/R?

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by greymule

That's quite logical, DG. My problem is with that last play Bruno cited, where the run scores even though the BR is the third out for INT before reaching 1B, as if it's a time play. Is that in the J/R?

If he third out is made by the BR at first base, no run can score. Both J/R as well as MLBUM echo each other on this. Think about it for a sec. No run may score when the BR makes the third out while advancing to first base.

Also, if the interference is made BEFORE first base, it would be a TOP placement. If the BR is PAST first base it is TOI. You can find both in J/R under section IV, p108-109

[greymule]

I agree 100%. I just want to know where Bruno's Cardinals-Cubs play and its subsequent ruling came from.

Bruno?

[Dave Reed]

A Google search reveals that the play comes from an article in Baseball Digest in 2000. I would say that the play is simply wrong.

WIth respect to TOI versus TOP, J/R is in the minority, and while I greatly appreciate their book, the MLBUM trumps their opinion. I will note that the J/R opinion is in accord with the printed rules (comment following the definition of interference), which make no exception to the general principle that runners return to TOP if B/R hasn't reached first base at the time of interference. The MLBUM/PBUC/Evans interps make an exception in the case of an intervening play. So I suspect that at one time the two schools of umpiring thought differed on the interp.

That doesn't matter now; clearly the ruling is TOI when there has been an intervening play.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...59/ai_64150846