Fair or foul

[daniels012]

bobbybanaduck,

the first scenario is not a balk. that penalty is only applied ot the catcher leaving his box

So it only applies to a catcher, so a player may play outside fair territory? (Interpretation of one foot in and one foot out)

kylejt,

Perhaps we can have a discussion about drinking and posting.

I like to bring up things that are not specifically in the rule books. I also am aware that there are some things you just don't call. But if you can't talk amongst your fellow "Blues" then who can you talk to? As far as drinking, yeah I have had 3 glasses of tea this evening.

bob jenkins,
Very well said.


Michael

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by daniels012

bobbybanaduck,

So it only applies to a catcher, so a player may play outside fair territory? (Interpretation of one foot in and one foot out)

No one said a player, other than the catcher, may begin play in foul territory. RIF

What was said was that the penalty of a balk under this section only applied to when the catcher leaves his box early. This is explicit in the rule book. Again, RIF.

[bossman72]

cmon guys, go easy on the guy! he's trying to learn.

but bob has the correct interpretation. in NFHS he can have one foot out legally. in Pro rules, he technically has to have 2 in, but this is rarely enforced.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bossman72

cmon guys, go easy on the guy! he's trying to learn.

No. He says he posts to create "discussion". He thinks he's teaching.

in Pro rules, he technically has to have 2 in, but this is rarely enforced.

The position by the original poster is that this may be a balk. It is not, in any code, a balk.

[Ump29]

The first instance would be a balk only if both feet were in foul territory. In the second instance , the runner would be out if the part of him over fair territory was hit by a hit ball. If he was hit in foul territory then it would be a foul ball.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Ump29

The first instance would be a balk only if both feet were in foul territory.

Oh, my God. Please read the rule and the Penalty.

If you have a new rule book, you'll see:

4.03 When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.

(a)The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.

PENALTY: Balk

You will then note that no penalty is listed for the other sections of 4.03


The penalty does not apply to fielders with one or two feet in foul territory. It doesn't apply to fielder pulling up a lawn chair and eating a sandwich in foul territory. The penalty of a balk applies ONLY to paragraph (a).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

It doesn't apply to fielder pulling up a lawn chair and eating a sandwich in foul territory.

I have often wanted to work the bases in this fashion, especially on extremely hot days. Except I would set up my lawn chair in between B and C. I would dress in appropriate attire, including Broc-a-brella w/double beer holders.

[PeteBooth]

Garth at one time this was ruled a balk but later changed.

Here's a little history FWIW

Jerry Remy of the BOSOX will be forever remembered in the umpiring community. Jerry did something during a game that baffled the umpires, and sparked a controversy that led to a ruling still in effect to this day in baseball everywhere.

During a game in the early 80's, with F1 on the mound and in contact with the rubber, Jerry entered foul territory to back-up an appeal attempt at first base.

Now, the umpiring crew that day knew what Jerry had done was illegal. At the start of play all fielders other than F2 are required to be on fair territory. Jerry was clearly on foul territory. But what the umpires didn't know was exactly how to penalize it. With no other feasible option, the umpires declared a balk.

That ruling rocked the umpiring world. They essentially created a new rule right there on the spot. It caused a grumbling at the highest levels of baseball officiating. Eventually the Director of Baseball Umpire Development at the time, the late Barney Deary, issued a ruling on the play. He declared that any play occurring with a fielder (other than the catcher) on foul territory should be nullified. It should not be ruled a balk.

The idea of nullifying play with less than 8 fielders in fair territory created one of the only, "do-overs," in baseball rules. And it was all because of Jerry Remy.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Garth at one time this was ruled a balk but later changed.

To correctly relate historical fact, that statement should read:

"Garth, at one time this was incorrectly ruled a balk by an umpring crew, only to be later corrected by their supervisor."

There has never been a rule that penalized this action as a balk, just a terrible decision similar to the one being suggested in this thread.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Garth at one time this was ruled a balk but later changed.

Here's a little history FWIW

Jerry Remy of the BOSOX will be forever remembered in the umpiring community. Jerry did something during a game that baffled the umpires, and sparked a controversy that led to a ruling still in effect to this day in baseball everywhere.

During a game in the early 80's, with F1 on the mound and in contact with the rubber, Jerry entered foul territory to back-up an appeal attempt at first base.

Now, the umpiring crew that day knew what Jerry had done was illegal. At the start of play all fielders other than F2 are required to be on fair territory. Jerry was clearly on foul territory. But what the umpires didn't know was exactly how to penalize it. With no other feasible option, the umpires declared a balk.

That ruling rocked the umpiring world. They essentially created a new rule right there on the spot. It caused a grumbling at the highest levels of baseball officiating. Eventually the Director of Baseball Umpire Development at the time, the late Barney Deary, issued a ruling on the play. He declared that any play occurring with a fielder (other than the catcher) on foul territory should be nullified. It should not be ruled a balk.

The idea of nullifying play with less than 8 fielders in fair territory created one of the only, "do-overs," in baseball rules. And it was all because of Jerry Remy.

Pete Booth

When I went to umpire school (years ago) had a similar situation on the first rules quiz we were given. I missed it, because the classroom instructor had told us in earlier in class that we should, for the most part, "screw the team who screwed up". The test question had to do with "Team A has 8 defensive players on the field, and the leadoff batter for Team B hits a homerun. Then it's noticed Team A was missing a left fielder. Ruling?" I figured "screw the team who screwed up", so I counted the run. Of course the rule book said "...the defensive team must have 9 men on the field". It was one of only two test questions I missed out of 234. Probably cost me a shot at the Bigs...

JJ

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by JJ

When I went to umpire school (years ago) had a similar situation on the first rules quiz we were given. I missed it, because the classroom instructor had told us in earlier in class that we should, for the most part, "screw the team who screwed up". The test question had to do with "Team A has 8 defensive players on the field, and the leadoff batter for Team B hits a homerun. Then it's noticed Team A was missing a left fielder. Ruling?" I figured "screw the team who screwed up", so I counted the run. Of course the rule book said "...the defensive team must have 9 men on the field". It was one of only two test questions I missed out of 234. Probably cost me a shot at the Bigs...

JJ

Or maybe not. However, isn't the rule enforced as such? This generally applies to F3, but also to any player. If one team complains that a fielder other than the catcher has a foot in foul territory, it is enforced for the remainder of the game for both teams. The next player who fails to heed such warning is ejected.

I don't have rule book to reference, so correct me if I'm wrong.