What is the Point of Playing in the Rain?
 

MLB ought to be embarrassed for starting tonight's game in Denver.

Nothing should surprise you that you read on here. Again, most of these posters have no clue about travel, scheduling,how to read the radar,and the mighty TV contract

Travel? This is the first of three in Colorado.
Scheduling? There is one freaking series in the national league.
Radar? What is the point of not waiting since the game was a 6pm start in Colorado?

Ah yes, the TV contract and the desire to make sure TBS never has to go head to head with Fox.

Boy, now there is a real bona fide reason to put players at risk of injury and make fans sit through "intermittent rain"?

Maybe the raindrops caused Hallion to blow the call on Matsui in the 5th?

A real showcase of MLB, not.

Let me guess, another veteran of the Over 30 Leagues. I do not want to sound like I am demeaning you, but by your comments it is obvious you have no clue regarding how the decision making process works. As for TH, yes he missed that one, but it took 3 slow motion replays for people to see that he was safe.

No.the decision making process is quite simple. Play the game and the fans and players be damned.

It may have taken 3 replays for the TV talking heads.....but not for anyone else paying attention. It was not a close play for a major league umpire.

I think he's made the ignore list of just about everybody here, myself included. He's just some 12-year-old whining about things of which he has no knowledge, so let him have his fun.

This is the entertainment business, disguised as sports. Backing up a seven games series, when there's a possibility of Worlds Series games in Colorado in late October, is really not an option. This is driven by television folks. Ratings, sponsors, and what's on the competitors channel if you postpone your game. i.e. if animals weren't being gathered by twos in the parking lot, play on.

I didn't see any fans complaining, nor many empty seats.

Well then we have perspective.

It ain't a sport it is a performance.

P.T. Barnum was correct.

It is obvious that the post season in Baseball is now in the backseat behind College and Pro football to the point of playing in the rain.

Pathetic.

Sorry that this is news to you.

I'm not taking SOMEONE'S side here, but the game could have been played Tuesday between games 4 & 5. Not putting the blame on MLB, because I'm sure they had a reason for letting them play, but this schedule is new this year, so maybe you didn't know about the off day. Backing it up probably could/should not have been an issue.

Regulars season game the start is delayed. Decision making process is very simple. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

They would have made money if they played yesterday or today. It was not a downpour last night. It was just a steady light rain. They play because if they wait there other times they would have to play under those conditions. I really do not see this as a big deal. How many times have you had games play on during some rain? I know I have and we did not have the elaborate ground's crew to keep the dirt dry. This really was not a big deal if you ask me.

Peace

Heck I thought rain in October for Denver was pretty good.

I've been there with 3 feet of snow in the begining of Oct.

At least no one got hurt.

And it certainly did not affect the D-Backs. Their offense is non-existent, rain or shine.

And it did not have much of an effect, either, on MLB baseball anemic TV ratings since the NFL game on NBC crushed basbeall.

Which is another reason to postpone a game that does nothing to showcase post peason baseball and move it to a night with out the NFL as competition.

I watched the game. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The rain didn't bother me. It didn't bother the Rockies' fans. It didn't bother the players. It didn't bother the umpires. I had no difficulty flipping back and forth with the NFL game, so I got plenty of bang for my entertainment buck.

Let me let you in on a little secret.
 

You would have had two skip to days then. On Monday the NFL plays football as well. Unless they would play the game at 1:00 in the afternoon, they would compete with the NFL today. :rolleyes:

Peace

No.

Tonight games in both playoffs are already scheduled. 7pm and 10 pm Eastern.

Game Five in the NLCS , if there is one , is set for Wednesay in Denver, with a day off on Tuesday, and if Arizona wins tonight and on Wednesday there would be ANOTHER day off on Thursday before games six and seven back in Phoenix.

Why MLB intentionally built in days off for weather concerns and then did not use them is a mystery.

The NFL is still playing tonight right? :rolleyes:

The NFL would not be playing on Wednesday. The NFL does not play on Wednesday. Is there a point here?

The day off is for travel, not weather. There is a built in travel day for every game between sites. The only time they would not use the travel day is during the 5 game series and if a game is rained out. The game was not rained out and they played. Life will go on.

Peace

Actually, JR, the schedule this year is different because of television and not travel and/or weather. Normally, the only off days for travel for both the ALCS and the NLCS are between games 2 and 3 and games 5 and 6.

Since TBS took over this year and MLB preferred to maximize prime time viewing, the only way to do this was to break up the middle of each series so that when one was traveling the other was playing, and vice versa.

I will admit that I have not been paying that close attention to the schedule, especially at this time of year.

TV has always taken precedent in these situations so that more people can see the game. People were complaining that they could not see certain games during the first round of playoffs. This is the reason the Super Bowl has been moved from an afternoon game to an evening extravaganza.

Peace

Except out here on the West Coast, where it remains an afternoon extravaganza. Kickoff is usually around 3:40 PST.:)

Yeah, the point is and was that MLB had built in two off days in Denver, neither of which conflicted with the NFL.

Last night's game could have been easily rescheduled to Tuesday and been played in better weather and no NFL Conflict.


Consider that the best TBS post season baseball rating so far is a 5.5 which is less than half the rating of a regular season game on Sunday night on NBC.

And tonight the Red Sox and Indians and the D-Backs and Rockies will overlap the Giants/Atlanta NFL game.
The number of TV households in Boston., Cleveland, Phoenix and Denver total 7.2 million, less than the total of those in the New York City area.

So my point remains, why play a game in the rain against the NFL when there was away to avoid both?

Even if football is not on, the average public does not care. Maybe you are one of those guys that still think most people are that crazy about MLB and the playoffs. The reality is anytime they have to go head up with another sport, they lose. And you are not going to get many fans than a Sunday night no matter what is on.

Personally I do not care why they did or did not play the game. It was just another game that I did not watch. And I am sure most of the country. ;)

Peace

Wow, I guess you sure told me.

Still pushing the issue
 

It is astonishing to me that you continue to pursue this. You have had it explained to you, and I might add without name calling or questioning your ability to comprehend what we have been telling you. Take your medication, and go back to watching Jerry Springer now

From the NF Website.
 

NF Website passage

Baseball is the fourth-most popular sport among boys at the high school level with 470,671 participants during the 2005-06 season, according to the High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the NFHS. It also ranks third in school sponsorship across the nation with 15,290 schools.

I am sure it does not help that games are starting at 10:00 Eastern.

Peace

Well what exactly are you explaining?

You are defending playing a game in the rain as a showcase of post season in MLB?

Actually who cares if they played the game? They played the game and they are playing the next game tonight. Reasonable people would get over it.

Peace

Wow. Talk about juvenile self-importance.

The game was played. MLB was okay with it. The fans were okay with it. The television audience was okay with it. The players were okay with it. The umpires were okay with it.

One poster with an inflated sense of self was annoyed, so obviously the world is wrong and he is right.

Good grief.

No Problem with the rain.

It was nothing like the conditions played years ago between the Montreal Expos and the LA Dodgers.

The problem MLB will face one of these years is Snow. The World Series is scheduled to end I believe on Nov 1st or Oct 31st. (Assuming the full 7 games)

This year the weather in the East has been great, but this is the exception rather than the norm. As we get to middle to late October the weather turns and when you play in NY, Boston Cleveland etc in late October anything can happen.

Look at what happend to the Cleveland home games in early April. Many were cancelled due to snow.

No reason for baseball to last this long.

Pete Booth

You cannot compare baseball to other sports in terms of ratings, JR, without tweaking numbers. Baseball plays 162 games a year for 6-7 months. They play every day of the week except for two specific dates (two dates on which no major pro sport plays, BTW). Football plays, for the most part, on one day a week--Sundays (I'm not including Monday Night Football here because that's one game and not most/all of the NFL).

I absolutely love the NFL, but I can assure you of this: if they played 7 days a week, I'd tune out. As it is now, I hate it when they play on Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday during a given week. This overexposure or oversaturation results in lower viewing ratings, but that doesn't mean its popularity has declined. For another year, MLB recorded record attendance. I believe that's the third or fourth year in a row, too. Hardly the sign of a sport in which "most Americans" have little interest.

You also cannot define its popularity by citing participation among the nation's high schoolers, because, among other reasons, football, for example, has a bigger roster and necessarily requires more participants in order to function. Also, baseball is not considered a big "money sport" for one main reason: baseball parks at high schools and colleges lack the ability to draw fans in the area of 30,000 to 100,000, which is something football can do. Even soccer and basketball can draw more fans. So, financial logistics will determine the apparent "popularity" to which you allude.

[QUOTE]Baseball is no longer "America's pastime" Baseball is strictly a Regional sport

If the Indians win and play the Rockies - How many people will watch that series? You might have some "novice" fans because the Rockies are this years Cinderella team but by and large if there is an Indian Rockies World Series watch the ratings plummet.

Also, the TBS network is not seen in every home. One of the games ened at around 2 - 2:30 eastern Time - Who stayed up to watch that.

The NBA , NHL and MLB have all become Regional Sports and their playoffs are on cable outlets.

If the NBA , NHL and MLB had great ratings do you think the major networks would give the playoff package to these "other outlet' cable networks.

Therefore in a nutshell, unless your team is in the playoffs no one cares.

When MLB allowed BIG market teams to have their own cable outlets (ie, MSG, YES FSNY etc. ) is when baseball became a Regional Sport.


Also, Football is on TV almost every night of the week if you include College Football.

Forget about MLB competing with the NFL, MLB cannot compete with local programming which is why CBS / NBC/ ABC/FOX do not shell out the "big bucks" to televise these events.

In the future, you will be lucky to see the World Series on a major netwrok.

Pete Booth

Here are the selected weekend TV ratings measured by those households in america wired directly to the Nielsen Rating Service. a rating point is one percent of the total available number of tv hourseholds(77 million)

NFL regionalized: New England Patriots-Dallas Cowboys
Sunday, 4:30 EDT
18.5 Rating (14.2 million homes)
CBS

CBS' highest-rated regular-season game since 1998.

MLB playoffs: Cleveland Indians-Boston Red Sox
Saturday, 8
7.0 (5.4 million)
Fox

Even with 2006 coverage of Detroit Tigers-Oakland Athletics.


College football: LSU-Kentucky
Saturday, 3:30
4.4 (3.4 million)
CBS


MLB playoffs: Arizona Diamondbacks-Colorado Rockies

Sunday 8pm EDT
3.5 (2.7 million)
TBS

Down 39% from comparable St. Louis Cardinals-New York Mets on Fox last year.TBS is almost certain to finish with the lowest prime-time LCS ratings ever.

But we will always have that game under the umbrellas to remember.

Obviously we are talking about pro football as it relates to ratings. If some small conference in college plays on some Wednesday, the average public are not watching those games.

Attendance is different than who is watching at home. There are college games that have more attendance than they ever had in 100 years of football, but the there are millions at home watching those games in many cases. And I am not talking about post season games where the champion will be determined by the end of the game. And I bet that more people watched the New Orleans Saints (0-5 going into the game) and the Seattle Seahawks than the game we are discussing here.

Also I have worked Freshman basketball games that had more people in attendance than almost every HS varsity (and do not get me started about college games from JUCO to D-1) that I worked this past spring and that includes a Saturday or Sunday game when there is nothing else going on.

When you compare attendance and the viewing public, baseball is behind the NFL and the NBA. If the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs or maybe even the LA Dodgers are not playing in the post season, the ratings fall drastically. In Colorado there were hardly anyone attending those games about a month ago until they were seriously in the playoff run. If the Red Sox do not win the American League Crown, I can tell you the ratings will fall off big time.

And yes it does matter what kids in this country think because those are who is going to watch and be fans generations from now. When I was a kid we played pick up whiffle ball games and we were always outside playing. I still see kids playing basketball on the playground. And if you want to talk about what kids do much more than play outside, and then you need to start talking about video games. One of the most popular video games is Madden Football. I bet you cannot even tell me what is the equivalent for Major League Baseball which tries to promote the sport? Basketball has become so popular during the summer, I do not see the same level of baseball teams as I do during the summer during these basketball leagues.

Look the guys in their 30s and 40s and above are still watching a lot of baseball because we grew up with that sport. Baseball was my favorite sport as a kid and I played it the longest. When I tried out for my HS baseball teams, there were 40 or 50 kids trying to make it. There was a cut to pick the top 20-25 players. Now I barely see kids at the HS level playing the sport and to get a team with 15 players is an accomplishment for even the big schools. My HS only had about 600 students when I graduated. The schools I am working and seeing on a regular basis hare 1500 to 2500 in many cases. You are telling me they cannot find another 10 kids to fill the varsity squad? I seem 20 kids at summer basketball games that those same HS.

Peace

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]Hardly. That's a ridiculous assertion, and if it were true, the same could be said about other sports that play their games every day or almost every day of the week.

One thing most people are forgetting is that when baseball's ratings were highest, it was during the days when we didn't have hundreds of channels to now watch. All sports, baseball among them, now suffer from perceived lack of interest and viewer decline. The same can be said about many good prime time television shows. With so many choices for viewers to make, simple numbers alone would tell anyone that ratings just aren't gonna be that high anymore.

[QUOTE][QUOTE=UMP25]How is that rediculous

Example: Who was watching the Rockies / D-backs series unless you live in Arizona or Colorado however,

The Pats vs. the Cowboys generated a National audience.

A better example: In the regular season Yanks vs. Mets generate a large audience in NY but outside of NY do you think people care about Mets vs. Yanks

That's the difference. Unless one of your baseball teams is in the playoffs the majority of the country couldn't care less.

Regardless of what you think Baseball IS a Regional Sport not a National Sport.

Pete Booth

I wonder how much the playing "late night" hours has impacted the viewing and ratings. I also wonder (wish...pray, actually) that MLB will someday go back to daytime games for at least some of these playoff games. If they want to develop a future audience and fans, they need to cater to the kids who WANT to watch these games but whose responsible parents won't let them stay up to do so.

JJ

And it does not help that the series ended around 2:00 am (Eastern) on a Monday night. Even the biggest fan on the eastern side of the country probably did not stay up to watch that series.

The NFL does a much better job marketing their sport and allowing the average public to watch their sport. The NFL Championship game is a national event and holiday.

You can talk about attendance all you want to, but there are college stadiums that fill a stadium with 100,000 people and their team is sorry (Michigan was 0-2 and they filled their stadium every week and I was there during the Oregon game). The Atlanta Braves in their most successful period almost never sold out their stadium when they made the playoffs year in and year out.

Baseball does not get the best athletes anymore from this country and the average public is not paying attention at the most interesting time of the season (or what is supposed to be). When I have more people watching a youth sport that has no news coverage compared to a sport that is in the paper or covered in the media, there is a problem. Ump25, you and I live in an area where a few years ago the Gatorade Player of the Year in Baseball came from (Neuqua Valley Pitcher, who I cannot even think of his name right now) and I have not seen or heard anything about him since he entered the Minors but when I talked to his coach last season). Illinois Mr. Basketball 2007 was featured on an ESPN SportsCenter Highlight during Midnight Madness (practice) this past weekend. And you wonder why kids are not playing baseball?

Peace

There are not enough viewers in the daytime, certainly not enough in the prime demographic that sports sponsors want, 25-50 year old men.

Thank you for proving my point. I'll reiterate: the NFL doesn't play games 7 days a week to oversaturate TV.

Actually, that's a worse example that further proves my point.

I agree, John, that the late starts probably have a big impact upon viewership, and I also believe they should go for daytime starts. Remember when World Series games on weekends started in the afternoon?

What JR doesn't seem to understand, though, is how the problem of time zones and prime time viewing comes into play when games are shown weekday evenings. Regardless of the start time, half the country is bound to be upset about the start time.

Play the Super Bowl as a 7-game event and it no longer WILL be a national event or holiday. You're comparing apples and oranges again.

Does Michigan play 162 games each season? Do they play almost every day of the week? No. If they did, would they draw 100,000 each game? Heck no!

Not to be grammar police or anything, because mine be/are atrocious at times, but there is no such word as "rediculous." It is actually "ridiculous." Just thought you might like to know how ridiculous it looks.:)

I live in San Diego. I am a Padres fan. Have been all my life. Don't really care much for the Rockies. However, I watched the entire series, rooted hard for the Rockies (because I detest the D-Backs), and thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing, especially the sweep and celebration last night.

I love baseball. I think many people around the country enjoy watching the playoffs, regardless of whether or not "their" team is playing.

Here in California, we get a mix of people from all over the country. It is one giant melting pot. The bars here were full of Rockies and Diamondbacks fans, probably people from those areas. We do get a lot of Zonies here year-round.

Again, not exactly true. I know of many, many fans of certain teams who live in parts of the country where there are no teams. For example, there are many Cubs and Cardinals fans living in the mid-west who live hundreds of miles from any professional baseball. That doesn't change the fact that baseball has always been America's Pastime. Baseball continues to be a national sport, as well as a national treasure.

Yes. Many people I know absolutely love it when there is a subway series. Baseball fans are that way. If a match-up is a particularly interesting one, a true baseball fan will follow it as if it were his own home team playing. I believe you are wrong to assume that people outside of any given market are apathetic when it comes to good baseball.

You may be able to start games in the daytime on the west coast, but you can't in the east becasue you cannot get enough viewers across the country to support the necessary advertising rates.

MLB could not beat out a regular season football game with two teams that are in "small markets" on a prime time stage. This is the post season; I would expect a so-called "major" sport to beat out any regular season game during their post season. And this was a game that determines who is going to the World Series, not just a Divisional Series and with teams that just barely made the playoffs. The NBA Playoffs run during the basketball season and I do not think they consistently get beat by national MLB coverage during the same time in ratings. And their ratings are not that good either during the highest stage.

Michigan is the example I used. I could have talked about any number of programs across the country and they fill their stadiums even when their teams are horrible.

Also the fact you keep talking about 162 games also makes my point. The season is too long. And MLB does not market their players very well at all. NFL Players wear helmets and the average fan would know who many of their top players are without their helmets. I cannot name 5 guys that played in the game last night that I knew anything about. Even last year there were several players that were top players in MLB and the ratings were terrible.

The bottom line is MLB is no longer the America's Past time. Kids do not play it as a playground game anymore (they do not even play video games with the MLB logo without making the game freakishly arcade-like and totally unrealistic). When they do play it is so organized I wonder if the kids are actually having any fun. And the major pro league does not even let the public know who their best players are and I am sure the scandals do not help either. When I was a kid I knew all the top players and there as not the 24 ESPN and Sports cycles the way there is today.

Just admit this sport is not what it was and likely will never be. The next thing you will tell me is Hockey is still relevant. ;)

Peace

Good points, Steve, regarding people in different parts of the country watching baseball, because I think one of the main reasons why the major sports are more popular is because of viewing choices, especially ones like the NLF Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, Major League Baseball's Extra Innings (DirecTV and cable), etc.

People who watch games via those methods aren't counted among traditional ratings, which tends to skew things downward. However, those packages do result in more people in more areas watching the games.

I would certainly hope so, or they'd NEVER get any viewers.
Again, would they fill their stadiums if they played almost every day of the week? You still haven't answered that.

Every professional sports team is too long, the NBA and the NHL the longest. (The NBA is the only sport that spans all four seasons of the year--beginning in autumn and ending in summer.)

I won't admit it because it's not true. And what's hockey? :confused: :D

The NFL owes it popularity, in part, to gambling. More people bet on pro football than any other sport, from legal bookmaking in Las Vegas, to illegal bookmaking everywhere else down to the thousands of office pools. That transceneds into more people interested in watching the games.

Numbers do not lie. If all you have is the number of games as apart of your argument than baseball is in very big trouble. None of that has anything to do with why the average public does not know anything about top players all over the country. Todd Helton has been a long time player on the Rockies and I bet the average person would not know him if he robbed them at gun point and he wore a Rockies Jersey on.

The NFL has a network. ESPN runs NFL programming off-season. NFL Films captivates the passion of the sport of football. The NFL Draft is not only an event, but a major production on two networks.

The NBA has a network also. ESPN also runs NBA programming during the off-season until the regular season. The NBA can have a lot of scandal and everyone is talking about their top players even when they are involved in the scandal.

MLB cannot fill certain stadiums during the post-season. When the Cubs, Yankees and Red-Sox do not play in the post season the public stops watching the post season. MLB did not even market their best moment of the year, instead let speculation and other scandal tamper with something that is not proven.

Once again, it is the MLB Post-Season. You should be able to crush NFL games with teams that will not even make the playoffs. Maybe baseball was once a big deal, but it certainly is not that way anymore. And the numbers of how many kids are playing it is also a factor in that whether you or I want to accept it or not.

Peace

Sorry, but the number of kids playing is NOT a factor because it's a faulty comparison. When sports such as football require two to four times as many participants, the numbers are grossly skewed in its favor. Obviously math wasn't one of your best subjects at school.

BTW, MLB is finally doing something right by finally starting their own network up in the next 18 months. They've been a bit behind the 8 ball over the last few years and it's shown. However, to imply that they've been relegated to basically an also-ran is another ridiculous assertion.

First, I don't recall baseball ever beating out football for ratings. That's not breaking news. But I don't know what playgrounds are like in your area, but out here I see pickup games played by kids all the time. Stickball, Wallball, 3 Flys Up, Pepper, regular hardball, or whatever. There is the world famous annual OMBAC Over-The-Line tournament (played with softballs, but by baseball fans and players) that grows in popularity every year.

Baseball is still alive and well here on the West Coast. Sure, when I was a kid I knew who all the top stars were. I also knew who all the everyday players were. I had shoeboxes full of baseball cards and those little metal discs that were so cool. I could quote stats all day. That was a different time then. There is so much more for kids to do these days and not as much emphasis is being placed on the traditions of the game. Today's youth doesn't give a crap about who Willie Mays or Joe DiMaggio were. But the last I checked, there are still millions of adult baseball fans who have been fans all their lives, and they still consider baseball to be the American Pastime. So many people live and breathe baseball. The kids who don't care haven't taken over anything yet.

What stadium has not been filled in MLB postseason?
Barry Bonds was not a scandal?
Major League Baseball is still a big deal, it is just not as big a deal as football, thanks to gambling.

Steve,

There is one irrefutable fact that JR cannot deny: Baseball is still America's nostalgic sport, a game that has charm and character unlike any sport. No other sport has served as integral a part of our nation's history as has Baseball.

Its charm, its allure, its history, its nostalgia, its sense of wonderment and more has not been matched at all by football, basketball, or any other sport.

James Earl Jones's character in Field of Dreams says it quite well, BTW. His speech on Ray's field brings some tears to my eyes every time I hear it.

There are not doing it anymore. Not a bunch of kids all by themselves with no dids around. I do see kids all the time shooting at a basket or playing some kind of basketball game at a park or in a recreational center. I see more adults playing softball or 16' softball than I ever seen any kids doing this.

When I was a kid we played all kinds of baseball type games before all this organized baseball became popular.

And it is alive in Texas and Florida and even Louisiana where it is warm most of the year. No arguing that. But in the Midwest Basketball is clearly king and many kids play football and basketball and never want to play baseball.

And my contention was not about the adults. But there is going to come a time when the people who grew up watching baseball are not going to be around anymore. When I was a kid a lot of African-Americans wanted to play baseball. Now it is rare to even see a team with a lot of Black kids even want to play baseball. Hispanics are playing more baseball than African-American kids and in some cases the African-American kids are some of the better athletes and would easily transition to baseball. ESPN did a story about college conferences like the MEAC and the SWAC which are all Traditionally Black Institutions and most of them hardly had a single Black kid on those teams. And these are schools were well over 95% are Black. I have been to HS where the entire Basketball Team is Black and the entire baseball team is white.

Peace

Atlanta and Florida come to mind. And Florida is in a baseball hot bed in this country. FSU, Florida and Miami tend to be the top college teams in the country with their home grown talent.

You can bet on just about any sport too. So it has to be more than just betting if you ask me. Maybe people do not see action in baseball. I know it is hard for me to watch an entire baseball game from start to finish and I umpire games.

Peace

It is obvious that I am not the only one missing it. There must be a lot of others missing as they watched an 0-5 football team play another 3-2 football team in a market that only a few people in that region of the country think about. And there is more buzz in the country about a South Florida team at the top of the college polls than a Colorado team going to the World Series. When players come out of HS and they are more known to the sporting public than a baseball star, it is obvious there is not much nostalgia going on. ;)

Peace

Boy you are all over the place.

Florida has never been a hotbed for MLB.
FSU and Miami are struggling in college football, and have been for several years.
Florida, is the defending National Champion, but has won only 2 in its history.

The only reliable "hotbed" in Florida is the NFL.

The NFL makes sure that the competition is keen by giving successful teams tougher schedules the next year, and easier ones for the struggling teams. The draft gives the worst team first dibs on the best college player and revenue sharing insures that small market teams get an infusion of cash to bid for the more costly players.

And, yes, gambling sparks more interest in the games. The Super Bowl is the most watched sporting event in America and, by far, has the most money bet of any sporting event.

Baseball can use its postseason to showcase what is still a great game.
But putting it on the air with rain coming down and fans shivering under parkas and slickers up against the NFL when it could have easily waited for a better night is silly.

The state of Florida has one of the highest rated areas for baseball players coming out of HS. I was not talking about MLB. They tend to have a lot of top players because they can play baseball year-round. It is also a well recruited football state where some of the best football players in the country come from. I think you need to do a little research. This also applies to other states like California and Texas that also are highly recruited in both football and baseball. FSU, Miami and Florida in college baseball tend to be ranked every year as well as Texas and many California or west cost teams. Not sure where you got the college football references from. I was not talking about college football. :rolleyes:

The draft works the same way in MLB. This year was the first year they had a live telecast of MLB draft and hardly anyone watched. Most of the baseball players you will not ever see make it to a MLB roster ever in their career. The NFL and the NBA drafts will almost always see the first view rounds of players playing on those teams at some point. The NBA you are almost guaranteed a spot unless you are from oversees where those draft picks have some options.

Well almost every post season in football has a game or two with bad weather and the fans not only love it, they relish in the experience (shirts off in 30 degree and lower temperature). Some of the most famous games in NFL history were played in the elements. Dallas-San Francisco in the rain and mud. Oakland-New England in the "tuck rule" game in a covered snow. When the Buffalo Bills had their run, they played many games in the post season in bad weather on the way to the Super Bowl. Those fans (and there were many more in the stadium) did not seem to complain and the weather was not nearly as bad on Sunday as in the examples I just gave. So I have two words for those fans. "Man UP!!!" :D

Peace

Miami has won the CWS twice in the last 20 years. The others you mention have never won the CWS,

Can't prove you wrong since there are no other sports that have a daily schedule. :D Pete Booth is right.

I'm not convinced baseball was ever our national pastime. National WASP pastime maybe. We have never had a real, true national pastime unless you want to consider war a pastime. :o

Miami has 4th most CWS wins with 46 and has the 2nd most appearances with 22. Also Miami has won the CWS 4 times (1982, 85, 99, 2001)

FSU has the 10th most wins in CWS history with 25 and has the 6th most appearances with 17. FSU looked like they have been a runner-up at least twice and once to Miami (1999).

Peace

Nothing here indicates my post was anything but accurate. I checked the history as well.

Four schools surpass Miami in CWS Championships and none of the others you name appear anywhere on the list.

LSU, Arizonz, USC and Texas all could better claim to have history or top rated baseball teams. Recently, Oregon could make that claim.

You've obviously never read Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

Easy explanation of why college football and the NFL have the highest ratings.

GAMBLING.

Super Bowl Sunday generates the most action of any sporting event.

It's also why Soccer will never make it. Over/Under 3.

LOL

Soccer is a sport for purists.

Baseball is a leisurely summer game that appeals to many and has a lot of strategy.

Football is the easiest for the masses to understand..
As well as the point spread.

Actually I did not say it wasn't. I just gave some additional information.

I was mainly talking about this from a recruiting and exposure point of view. No one has shown that what I said was incorrect either. I just know when I look at the nation’s top players; most of them do not come from my neck of the woods. They usually come from those warm weather states and Florida, California and Texas tend to have most of those players historically.

If I was not mistaken, many of the players on the Oregon team were from California if I remember correctly. During the broadcast they talked about how many players were from outside of Oregon and that helped their success.


Peace

People bet on things they are interested in. Whatever the reason, baseball is far behind football the when you cannot outdraw or get higher ratings during the time when your sport is celebrating a champion.

Peace

Believe what you want to believe. The Super Bowl is a one-game winner take all event. Play it as a best of seven and we'll see where the betting is.

Football is a better "betting" sport, anyway. Ask 10 people what a 5.5/6.5 line is in baseball and only the hard core would understand.

You've GOT to be kidding with this post, I hope. College football has no charm, allure, or history the way Baseball does. I absolutely love pro football, college basketball, and other sports, but I cannot deny Baseball has a very historical and nostalgic place in American society. No other sport has had more books, stories, and movies written about it than does Baseball.

[QUOTE]Really:

Most of the greatest Rivalries in this Country are in College Football. Here are some to name a few:

Army / Navy
Alabama / Auburn
Ohio State / Michigan
Harvard / Yale
UCLA / USC

Since Free Agency there is not a TRUE rivalry in baseball anymore.

Let's take the BOSOX / Yankees which currently is baseball's biggest rivalry.
Johnny Damon played for the BOSOX and now the Yanks. Therefore, the so called "heated rivalry" is a thing of the past.

I do not understand your argument. It's a FACT, baseball doesn't generate TV ratings. If they did, ABC / NBC/CBS/ and FOX would be "flying through hoops" to not only get the playoff Package but have a "decent" regular season package.

Football revenues from the networks continue to rise. Why do you think NBC got back into televising Football after they lost the AFC Package to CBS years ago.

Monday Night Football ratings have also gone down which is the reason Monday Football is now on ESPN as opposed to ABC.

As it stands now, Fox did not televise any of the first round games. They televised the Indians / BOSOX series and then the World Series.

Who would have thought years ago that the baseball playoff package would be on Cable. As I mentioned baseball cannot keep up with Prime Time Programming let alone the NFL.

Pete Booth

You do not know much about college football. Many college programs were around a lot longer than any pro sport in this country. And schools are still doing many of the same things they did from the minute they had a football program. I do not know if you have an HD TV, but there is a program called "Field of Glory" and they go to many college campuses all over the county and all they talk about is tradition. From the reason why the school colors are what they are, but why you hear certain chants, why the band plays certain songs or has certain routines to why Michigan Stadium has 107,500 and 1 or why Ohio State "dots the I." I was even watching the program today and Virginia Tech reveals who wears their mascot uniform by the student wearing the Hokie feet with the cap and gown. And if you are a Heisman Trophy winner, you are revered across the country even if you are accused of murder. ;)

So if people write the same book over and over again, that proves the better sport? OK, that is why our state no one wants to umpire, but everyone wants to be basketball and a football official. The number of books is really helping that cause. And you and I live in the same area where they talk about curses and Billy goats. :rolleyes:

Peace

Not correct. No college football programs were around a lot longer than professional baseball.

First college football game ever played (which more closely resembled rugby):

Rutgers College (which became Rutgers University) VS. The College of New Jersey (which became Princeton)

November 6, 1869

First established professional baseball category within the National Association of Base Ball Players:

1869

First complete Nine professional baseball club: The Cincinatti Red Stockings:

Formed March 15, 1869.

Steve, you can continue this conversation. I'm done talking to a wall.

I never said other sports have absolutely no allure or charm; rather, I said no other sport has the allure, charm, and nostalgia that baseball has. This simply is fact based not on my personal opinion--Lord knows baseball has its problems--but is based on the totality of Baseball and its longtime place in American history. Movies, books, stories, trading cards, pickup games, father/son relationships, its lingo and insertion into everyday lexicon, etc., etc. Football, college or pro, doesn't have this. Basketball doesn't have this. And soccer, arguably the world's most "popular" sport, doesn't have it--at all.

Baseball was and is.

Well the fact is that MLB Playoffs did not get an audience to watch their sport over a regular season NFL game with both teams from small markets and one of the teams without a win. That is a fact, not a personal opinion. And the rating for the showcase of the sport has been abysmal over several years. Even when the Red Sox won the World Series, the ratings were terrible and that featured another "great baseball town" in that championship run. If all you can get is high ratings when one franchise in New York is playing, the sport has some serious marketing issues.

The facts are also that at the HS level, it is the 4th on the list of popularity. And I see more kids bouncing around a ball that is twice their size than I ever see a two kids throwing around a baseball with gloves in hands. There are more Michael Jordan fans with the man retired than there is of any retired baseball player. And the fact is that Jordan can show up to a HS game and they have to shut the place down to allow him to watch his son's play basketball. Billy Williams can do the very same thing with his Grandson and the man can watch the game in peace. Those are facts too. :D

Now I loved having this conversation because it is like talking around the bar about which team is better and why. These kinds of debates are what make sports fun and very enjoyable most of the time. Watching the actual games is only part of the fun.

But to act like facts are only based on "Well they wrote more books" is kind of silly to me. Hockey has a lot of history and passion but look where that sport is today. They played their games on a network that no one could find on most cable stations. Even the NFL Hall of Fame presentations are watched more than what MLB does during their presentation. So if they are so special, the general public is not watching and they are not as captivated as you are. Oh, did I mention that NFL Pre-season games that play on National TV also have higher ratings than anything MLB does during that same time. Of course people in those local areas might care, but I do not see Network TV trying to cover the great Sox and Yankees pre-season battle. Fox, CBS and NBC put the NFL on Primetime TV during the pre-season. I guess you have to have nostalgia to not make network TV during games that do not count. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

Peace

It's pointless reiterating something for the umpteenth time when you lack the ability to understand numbers. The Super Bowl is one single event marketed to the hilt. It's shown on a Sunday night--the single biggest prime time of the week. The World Series is shown on from 4 to 7 nights, only one of which can possibly even be a Sunday.

When you go shopping, you really DO have a hard time distinguishing between apples and oranges, don't you? :rolleyes:


Again, a statement skewn by numbers. Math wasn't your best subject was it? Jeesh! :rolleyes:


That is really a stupid comment that is borne of a lack of knowledge and logic. Seriously. It's been explained multiple times here. You exhibit poor logic in reaching a false conclusion. Think about that and you might realize why. You don't get it; you just don't get it.

My 8-year-old niece could better understand things.

As would a wall.

The bottom line is the public does not care about baseball as much as they do with other sports in this country. And some pie in the sky fantasy about some movie and what some player there is no film on is not going to change that. That is why there is more successful programming with the NFL and the NBA than there is currently with MLB. Maybe that will change one day, but not today. For the record, the NBA plays fewer games and their season is much longer from start to finish in months, and they get decent ratings for summer league ball. Let it go, baseball is not as relevant as it once was. I can accept it, you can too.

Peace

Excuse me but your facts are wrong.


Baseball beats the NBA in regular season ratings.
And Baseball KILLED the NBA in post season last year.
BASEBALL 11 rating for the World Series
NBA 6.5 for the Finals.

You can, as they say, look it up.

Randy:

I laugh to myself in amusement, or shake my head in bewilderment at the irony every time somebody demands the channel be changed to football or basketball because “baseball is boring”. All three have allure, but the former two are gaining more. The trend mirrors the general dumbing down of American society. Baseball will continue to lose popularity because the masses have too short an attention span to pay sufficient attention to the subtlety of baseball to ever gain an understanding sufficient to develop an appreciation of it

Basketball and football are hip-hop, slam dancing and graffiti, the dime novel. They are power and speed, the awe what is possible by the physically extraordinary among us.

Baseball is the symphony, ballet and sculpture, poetry. It is finesse, the awe of what is possible by the physically ordinary among us.

In football, two-way play is unusual. In basketball, it’s optional. In baseball, it’s (generally) required. It takes two extraordinarily different skill sets to play offense and defense. You can spend ten years in the minors developing and still get a crack at the bigs. The others write you off if you haven’t made it by age 25. Make that 21 in basketball. Baseball doesn’t require stamina for a game, but it does for a season.

Football and basketball allow you to redeem your failures on the next snap, or the next trip down the court. In baseball, you have to wait two or three innings for your shot at atonement. In baseball, a 35% success rate gets you to Cooperstown; in the others, a 40% success rate gets you an unemployment check.

Baseball doesn’t allow a clock to run out your chance to come back. There is no taking a knee in baseball. There is no partial credit. There are no field goal attempts if you are stranded at third, no free throws if a hard knock keeps you from crossing the plate. It’s one run at a time, and that’s the only way to win.

Rut is right—appreciation of baseball is dying. A pity, but given a “culture” that demands instant gratification and eschews lifetime achievement for fifteen minutes of fame, what else would you expect?

Baseball is Augustus; football and basketball are Nero.

I was referring to head to head comparisons. And unless you have some facts that showed that any national broadcast the NBA was outdone by some national broadcast, I stand by everything I said.

But for some reason if you reference participation numbers, those cannot be accepted even thought I bet most schools that offer a basketball program, offer a baseball program. I bet someone will claim that is not accurate either without any numbers to back that up. ;)

Peace

Baseball beat the NBA in numbers for games of the week,

Impressive since the TV viewership for Saturday afternoon games in the summer is much lower than for Sunday afternoon games in the Winter for NBA.

Wouldn't you agree?

I personally do not know and personally do not care. I am just wondering when I am going to get another lecture about why baseball is so much better than every other sport. I am sure NBC, CBS and ABC are going out of their way to get that MLB contract for prime-time viewing. Oh, I forgot, they did not care to. ;)

Peace

Very well put. Good post!

Because I said so.
Guess that about ties that up! :D

JJ

I agree with SD Steve (again... how irritating!), Publius' post goes to the salient points. Americans' attention spans, averaging the duration of a lit match, are not up to the task of appreciating baseball's subtleties. And the netjerks don't help the situation; coverage consists largely of closeups of players' zits and little kids covering themselves with cotton candy. Seldom if ever do you see a wide shot between pitches (or during a live ball), showing the minor adjustments in fielding positions that reflect the chess game. I love being at the park and seeing, for instance, a shift toward right field against a right handed batter, convincing the batter that they're going to pitch him away, then a last second adjustment to straight away as the front-door slider freezes him on the inside. That stuff goes on constantly, but someone who considers him/herself a better judge of what "we" want has decided that it's too much brain damage for yer average viewer. I'd like to see interactive coverage where the viewer gets to choose the camera (s)he's watching.

Publius - hat's off. Excellent post.

Be careful, you'll get a bad reputation!:)

That would make Garth Caligula? :D

1578 views and 88 replies....

No wonder BrianCurtain removed his post.

And since, through all of that, no one answered your question....

The point of playing a baseball game in the rain is to score more runs than your opponents.

JM

LOL

That would be the point of any game where runs, goals, and points are interchangeable terms reflecting scores.

Playing a baseball game in the rain in post season indicates a complete lack of leadership in MLB.

Pretty sad.

You are still the only person I have heard complain about it. Looks like it's you against the world. The 90+ bags of Diamond Dry did the trick just fine and the game was thoroughly enjoyable.

Sure , for you, who invested nothing.
But not for MLB who gained nothing.

Five days later and your still carrying on about this,

GET A LIFE

LOL

The Fat GUY Has Sung
 

The point of playing that baseball game in the rain is to demonstrate that light rain wasn't enough of a reason to call or delay this baseball game. The umpires were not concerned over bad visibility or other safety precautions. The managers were not complaining about the rain rate or field conditions. Most of the fans who watched prefer starting the game on time over delaying the game. The point of playing a baseball game in the rain is to satisfy the millions of baseball fans who may have bothered to watch the game being played in the rain. The players managed to play a very good ballgame in the rain. I would say the right decision was made to play the game in the rain.

Right on most points!

Who is "right", and on what "points" ?

SAUmp and on all the points he just made. IU always answers the last poster first.

In spite of some like J.R.'s head being in the sand, Baseball's popularity seems to be growing.

Far question, Arnold.