MLB suspends Winters
 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

NEW YORK (AP) -- Umpire Mike Winters was suspended by Major League Baseball for the remainder of the regular season on Wednesday because of his confrontation with San Diego's Milton Bradley last weekend.

The Padres claimed Winters baited Bradley, who has a history of losing his temper. Bradley tore a knee ligament when his manager spun him to the ground while trying to keep him from going after the umpire during Sunday's 7-3 loss to Colorado in San Diego.

Winters was suspended because the commissioner's office concluded he had used a profanity aimed at Bradley, a baseball official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the reasoning for the suspension was not announced.

thats what---3 games?


(memo to mlb: the seasons' over!!)

He could lose playoff games and the suspension could carry over into next season. Just have to wait and see if it comes out in a news release or not.

1. Isn't "confronting Bradley" wrong in and of itself?

2. Knowing the penalties for criticizing umpires, and imagining the penalties for making THAT kind of an allegation and not being able to back it up, why exactly would anyone make that up? (And please spare me your "he's a rat" garbage)

3. There has to be a better way to "stick up for his fellow umpire."

4. What "show" is "Bradley running?"

One thing that is mentioned over and over when discussing participant/umpire relations is that the offended manager/player should not "cross the line" in a discussion with the umpire. To do so invites an ejection, even if the call was kicked or a rule misinterpreted. In other words, argue properly or take a hike.

Now it seems to me that the same should hold true for the umpire. Keep it "proper" or risk the consequences. If the AP article is correct, Winters crossed a line.

I saw the video three times. Winters said/did something and BOTH Mecheam and Bradley immediately went toward Winters. Then Mecheam turned to head off Bradley. Something was said that pissed off both of them. Mecheam kept his cool enough to turn his attention to Bradley. Bradley "lost it".

I wish someone had interviewed whoever was F3 and added his comments to the articles and commentaries. That could shed more light on what happened. Perhaps MLB did so and it contributed to their action against Winters.

Bradley has a history. As far as I know, Mecheam does not have a history.

1. Not necessarily.

2. Based on what I've read, the coach has backed off his initial allegations.

(3 & 4 -- no comment).

Here's what I think. This was a typical "chain of events" scenario. No single action was "over the top", but when added together they lead to a negative situation. If any action had not occurred, we wouldn't have had this. (If Bradley hadn't flung the bat, if Runge would have noticed and addressed it immeidately, if Winters had stayed out of it, if Winters hadn't made a show of addressing it, if Runge hadn't brought it back up later, if Bradley had let it go, ...)

They were all to blame, and all have the "defense" of "well, he started it."

MLB is right to send them to "time out", and I bet MLB know more about the story then will ever be made public.

But he does have a vested interest in the outcome.

Well, like I said in the other thread, this will just give Winters a break before the playoffs.

If they would've just ejected Bradley in the fifth inning, none of this would have happened. Just evidence to show that "keeping people in the game" brings risks to the umpires, as well.

mr Devil: 'attention in the compound.... hes a rat. that is all' :)

Not necessarily. Like I said in my first post, I've been reading this forum since early this year when I found it looking for some insight into a rule interpretation I saw in a high school game. I've always had an interest in umpiring and I've found many things here interesting.

I only posted on this because I was at the game and thought maybe an eyewitness account might be of interest for the discussion. I probably would have posted earlier in the season when I saw some things of interest and had questions, but I didn't realize you didn't have to join the paysite to post. I don't consider anything I've done to be "trolling." I don't see how following up on the matter would be considered as such, unless your definition of a "troll" is someone who doesn't just blindly agree with your personal point of view.

:)

Not at all. This board, though, has had a lot of posters come (and just as quickly go) when something controversial happens involving officiating.

You're just as welcome as anyone else, although I hope you'll stay a while.

I've been wondering how many Padres Froemming will eject this coming weekend, though :)

Hey, Bob, do I have to get my freaking posts approved so you won't delete them? It's getting ridiculous around here. And you're being over officious, which I know isn't your nature.

Ok. I'd imagine that has happened, but I'm not into that kind of stuff.

Hopefully Bruce doesn't have to eject anyone. If he does, I'm 100% certain they'll deserve it.

I believe F3 was Todd Helton of the Rockies.

I read something on Monday that said he was asked about the incident and declined to comment. I'm reasonably sure that he had comments for MLB, however.

I'm sure he did, from what I've read in the past Todd Helton is a good guy and probably stood up for what was right.

I don't feel sorry for Bradley, but I also think Winters made a very poor judgement. It was not his call and he stuck his nose in his partner's business ...

I would hope that Winters would get no postseason because of this. Similiar to the NBA - give him a break and let him think about it, then bring him back next year.

Thanks
David

Correct me if I am wrong, but Winters said something to his partner and his partner said something to Bradley. Then when Bradley got on base, he was confronted by him. That does not sound like sticking his nose into anything. I will always have my partner's back. I have no problems on Winters telling his partner about a player's action.

Peace

I don't share the knee-jerk defense of the umpire. The suspension seems to be more than justified.

Meacham (the first base coach) has not backed off anything. This is what he told MLB, according to the San Diego Union Tribune:


Winters instigated the incident by calling Bradley a “bleeping piece of (expletive).” It was Meacham who responded first, walking up to Winters.

“I'd never heard something like that on a baseball field,” Meacham said. “I was like, whoa, you can't say that. There was a reason why I walked on the field.”

“Winters should apologize to Milton,” Meacham said. “I know what I heard. Milton was wronged. His future is at stake here. I'm not in anybody's corner. I just want the truth to come out. Winters made a mistake. He lost his cool. He snapped. All of us make a mistake. It was stuff that just shouldn't be said. Milton did what anybody in baseball would have done.”

As for the "neutral witness," the Rockies first baseman: When asked Sunday about the incident, Helton chose his words carefully, saying it was "interesting and crazy."

The same thing here in the papers. Winters was dumped for using profanity directed at the player. This has nothing to do with backing your partner or race. Bradley confronted Winters on his way to first and Winters held his hand up and told him to back off. Bradley lost his cool and Winters said, "Shut up, you "f***ng piece of sh**", according to those nearby. Sounds like he earned the penalty to me.

If Winters' actions were found to legitimately warrant a suspension, then IMHO, he shouldn't work the playoffs either.

Oh, Winters just gets to rest up for the playoffs, huh? Grow the F up.

You guys keep calling reddevil a rat, etc....he was the only one on this forum who was there, on the first base side, watching the whole thing, including the between innings antics of Runge and Winters.

It looks like Winters got what he deserved. You can't say that to someone without any consequence. He's lucky Meacham and Black were there to keep him from getting an a-whoopin'.

1. Certainly not. However, the rules as to how that is done have changed.

As recently as the 70's and 80's umpires it was acceptable for umpires to use the same language as the Rats during heated confrontations. An F-you from the Rat was met with an F-you, too from the umpire. "Piece of ****" was and is a common reference of and by both rats and umpires.

Sometime in the last 20 years, for whatever reason, umpires have had their leash yanked when it comes to language on the field. I don't if today's player get his feelings hurt easier or what, but umpires are now taught to avoid using Rat language when arguing with Rats. Winters apparently lost his cool and slipped to the old ways.

2. Who knows why the first base coach lied. He lied twice. First he told the media that Winters made a "racial comment." Then he said it was a comment that "could be taken racially." With that, he threw Winters under the bus.

The result of F1's testimony and other (lip reading?) experts called upon by MLB indicate that Winters called the POS rat a "F@#&ing piece of sh!t."

The MLB investigation, according to some inside, also indicates that Winters reported exactly what he said to his crew chief. So when the first base coach also told the media that Winters lied to his crew chief, he was lying again.

3. Better language, perhaps.

4. None that I care to see.

So, while the original allegations against Winters have been proven false, he was found guilty of using inappropriate language, which he admitted, and has been suspended. Despite SDS claims, I have no problem admitting Winters' error now that the facts are known, and I believe his punishment is appropriate.

Now, I can wait just as patiently for the other shoe to fall. What penalty will be appropriate for Bradley?

Hasn't backed off? Hasn't backed off??????????

The first time he talked to the press, the lying F@#%ing piece of sh!t claimed that Winters made a "racial" comment. He toned it down later to a comment "that could be taken racially." And then, when confronted with the knowlege that the F3 would be testifying, changed his story again to the accurate statement.

Just what do you consider backing off?

Thanks for the responses
 

Ok, I can see where you guys are coming from on this with your experiences and I appreciate the responses. I'm guessing that we're never going to publicly get the rest of the conversation that occurred, and at this point, it probably doesn't matter. Meacham probably should stop talking altogether now.

Someone mentioned that Winters "couldn't" eject Bradley from 1st at the time of the bat flip. It sure looked like that was his intention, but he stopped himself. In my time when I used to do PA and stats for my former High School's baseball team, I saw on a couple of occasions where one umpire got rid of a player who showed up the other umpire behind his back. I'm guessing that something like that maybe is frowned upon at MLB level? From my fan perspective, I really wish Winters had done that.

Thanks again for your insights.

Most likley he will also be fined more than three days pay. His suspension is real, unlike the farce that goes on when a pitcher is suspended for three games.

And since the whole question centered on what was said at firstbase by Winters and Bradley, reddevil's testimony means squat.

I agree. Will Bradley get what he deserves?

No, Bradley's lucky. POS or not, if he had touched Winters he'd have had serious problems.

A rat calls an umpire a piece of ****, he merely gets ejected. Certainly not suspended, or Bobby Cox would've been out for the last 15 years.

Finally, MLB has publicly admitted that the umpires are no more important than the bases they work. I shouldn't be surprised.

Winters got what he deserved? Maybe, maybe not.

As far as Bradley goes, poetic justice may have to prevail here.

There is no where in civilized society that anyone can react the way that Bradley has, now and in the past, and not face serious consequences. That young man has some serious, serious anger and in my opinion maturity issues.

It's of little interest to me if he ever plays again. JMHO

Quite a spin. But the facts and the quotes point to the umpire as the bad guy in this one.

One point of interest. How oblivious is Brian Runge not to see a bat thrown at him? That event hasn't been mentioned by any of the umpire crew as being serious or I feel it would have been addressed at the actual time it happened. Whether you like Milton Bradley or not, Mike Winters is the one who crossed the line big time. If I have a situation that needs to be taken care of, I'm doing it then, not three innings later.

I read that Runge had turned to take a substitute and missed the bat flip by Bradley. I agree that the right response from base umpires would be to turn and walk away.

The problem with this is you put players and umpires on the same level. By the logic you are using, a parent should get a spanking or timeout or whatever discipline you use for raising his voice to a child just like the child who yells at the parent. The umpires are the arbiters of the game and should be held to a higher, much higher, standard than a player or a manager. MLB's decision is good for umpires because it acknowledges and demonstates the umpires' position on the field. He is in charge and should act like he is in charge. MLB's decision simply makes that point.

But why would you want to say it back? You are in charge and do not have to tolerate that. Throw him out; let him rant. When he leaves resume play. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you should.

From Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

So you are suggesting ejections for use of profanity in professional baseball?

Winter's actions demean all of us umpires.

Using his power to bait a player, even a bad actor like Milton Bradley, is despicable. Ejections should be penalties for bad behavior, not for responding to insults.

Winters should be fired.

You don't shoot a pedigreed bull just because it sh!ts in the front yard.

Wow. You feel personally demeaned by this?

Good Lord, good thing you weren't around in the 70's.

Winters has been punished for his role in this. And his punishment may very well be long lasting. He was being, according to some, groomed to be a crew chief in the future. Most likely, that's gone.

You do if you have a herd of bulls waiting the wings to take his place. Anyone else smell the BBQ?

The MLB is in the entertainment business, and no one, aside from a few groupies here, pays money to see the umpires. Get out of line, and nobody will remember your name, the number you wore or when you went of vacation.

Also, why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that Runge threw Winters under the trolley by ratting him out? Junior and Milton had a larf about it, but Bradley singled, and then the fun began.

Everyone write it down. I agree with Tyler.:)

I like Mike Winters. I've always found him to be a real stand-up guy. I enjoyed auditing his officiating classes. I've known him for years. But in this case he was wrong.

The reason players only get ejected for calling an umpire a f****** piece of s*** is because they are not held to the same standards. The umpire is expected by the nature of his job to be above that sort of pedantic name calling. Winters could have just as easily just told Bradley to shut the f*** up, and Bradley probably would have said either, "Okay boss" or had a meltdown as he is known for. Either way, Winters would not be suspended right now.

I was suspended for the remainder of the season back in 1991 for an incident involving a rude fan and a certain crotch grab and hand gesture I made after the guy rode me throughout both ends of a double header in a tournament. Hey, I had to go before the board and the vote went 6 to 5 against me, with the president casting the tie-breaking vote. I lost a month's worth off HS ball because of my stupidity.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Absolutely.

Milton Bradley is a tool. That being said Winters should be fired. If you were working in corporate America and your mistake cost your company a big sum of money you would be fired.

Winters had no business talking to Bradley. As a result of this Bradley's career and livlihood is in jeopardy (yes he's a nitwit) and the Padres post season chances have been hurt posswibly costing them a huge sum of money. It's obvious Winters had no business talking to him judging by MLB's action. Just my opinion.

Winters had every right to talk to Bradley, just not using the language he did. Winters has his partners back and informed him of Bradley's antics with the bat.

Remember, Bradley brought it up initially when he got to first, so he had been stewing on it for a while. If Winters had just not called him a FPOS, Bradley would have been serving his suspension during rehab.

Winters was wrong for the language he used. He has been punished appropriately. To say that he should be fired is a gross overreaction to the situation.

The biggest farce here is this quote from Bradley "It's terrible. And now, because of him, my knee's hurt," he said after the game. "If this costs me my season because of that, he needs to be reprimanded. I'm taking some action. I'm not going to stand pat and accept this because I DIDN'T DO NOTHING WRONG." (emphasis added)

Yeah Milton, you did nothing wrong. Keep believing that!

Idiot...

I agree. I think he also won't work the playoffs this year, although we'll neve know whether that's punishment or he wasn't scheduled to work anyway.

My guess is that Bradley won't have any additional suspension -- the time he's out because of the injury is penalty enough, although he'll likley be fined. (And again, we likley won't know all the details here).

Bob, from what I've been told, Mr. Winters was scheduled to work post-season. Whether he remains on the schedule is unknown.

I Just Wonder....
 

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

Since MLB is very inconsistent in how it judges rule violations, and even missed calls by umpires (i.e. the Cleveland/Baltimore protest earlier in the year), this is all a political response to media and ESPN publicity, IMO.

Was Winter's wrong? We really don't know, unless you assume the MLB thinks he cussed or baited Bradley, and that crossed a line. But since we have no record of what happened we can access, we really don't know what happened. Look men, Bradley didn't go off any worse than George Brett did at the Pine Tar game, and only slightly less than Rose did at Dave Pallone, except he had nobody to hold him back at the time.

We also know that the 1B coach of the Pads did change his story after the fact, quite frankly IMO because the media is always a useful tool to beat opponents over the head with in sports, and other places in our life too. To use an overused phrase, he threw Winters "under the bus" to protect his player.

It also seems to me that Winter's is doing what everyone is supposed to do in this "team" oriented umpiring rubric these days, stick your nose into your partner's business. In the past, if HP missed the bat toss, U1 wouldn't say anything, until the after the game, when the HP guy could find then know he had business to take care of later.

I feel really sorry for Bradley, his temper has ruined his career, from his first days in Cleveland until now. And maybe the worst thing about the situation is that he has someone other than himself to blame for being so hot-tempered and selfish that he did real damage to his team and teammates. So he looks at his knee and blames Mike Winters, not the face in the mirror.

If Winters is going to be crew chief, he still should be in the mix. He more or less kept his cool (though you might see that as beauty in the eyes of the beholder) in a bad situation. He was also straight with his crew chief, according to his crew chief, so to me he has shown the necessary judgment and self-control needed to be a crew chief. One small time incident like this shouldn't leave him out in the cold, unless the Emperor in NYC really has no clothes on.

Last year's WS doesn't preclude him from working post-season this year. Mike is a damn good umpire and should be working play-off games, if not for this suspension.

I have had an opportunity to watch a lot of ESPN lately and I can tell you that the "racism" part of this story was not even a major blip on the screen for most of the media. There was more focus on what Winters said and the "baiting" of Bradley than any part of what the 1B coach claimed.

This story had legs more because the media likes to constantly rip on officials and highlight when they get in trouble. Just like when the situation with Joey Crawford took place. There is this position the media takes that officials do are not held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. This of course is not at all true, but that is the impression. It is funny how people that are so informed about things in sports never have a clue about any level of officiating. I have not even heard much about this part of the story that Bradley was the one that confronted Winters that started this whole thing. It is just a sexy story to blame the ump as usual.

Peace

Truer words have not been spoken.......

Of course officials are supposed to be held to higher standards and accountabilty than the participants. Why shouldn't they be? You just can't go around calling people a f-ing piece of sh!t, and that is all there is to it. That is the bottom line.

Just an opinion
 

I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying. And as far as I am concerned, players should not be using any language either, but that is another discussion for another day.

Peace

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen one report from anyone saying that Milton Bradley used profanity towards Winters BEFORE Winters called him a FPOS. Or are we all just ASSUMING that because it is Bradley and because Winters used profanity that Milton must have said something profane to Winters first? Until I see something that says Bradley directed some profanity towards Winters first, then what Winters said was wrong plain and simple and he got what he deserved.

The question wasn't directed at me, but I'll proudly admit that in 30 years of umpiring, I've never sworn at a manager/coach/player. The only time I've used profanity is if I said something like, "Did you just tell me I was full of schit?" or when I repeat to a manager/coach what his ejected player said that got him ejected.

I am not talking about this confrontation. I have no idea what was said. Unlike many others here, I have no idea what was said and do not claim that profanity was used by anyone. But there have been many taped arguments and language has been used by players and coaches in arguments. I seriously doubt that someone that has to be restrained as if someone is preventing them from fighting, is not using any "inappropriate language." I know that I have worked games and I have heard language used and I do not recall such that nice language was used. Remember, the report and Bradley admitted to confronting Winters first.

Peace

What, are you being intentionally obtuse or something?

I never said that profanity was bad to use. I said that personal comments calling someone a profane name are not to be used.

Have you even bothered to read any of my other posts? I said that Winters could have said "shut the f*** up" and he would have been alright.

Yeah, I've occasionally used profanity, but in 21 years of umpiring never once called anyone a f****** piece of sh!t, either.

One time I said to an arguing HS coach, "Dave, that's bullsh!t and you know it." I got reprimanded by my association for using profanity. This was way back in 1988.

In adult leagues, where cussing is acceptable, you still don't call people nasty names.

That is just too stupid for words, so I won't waste any.

It must not be too stupid, you responded. ;)

Peace

Even if its true? :)

The WUA is not challenging the suspension and the incident is costing Winters not only the five games but also an LCS this season:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...04933280_x.htm

Richie Phillips, where have you gone?

I don't know about anyone else's association, but if I called a player what Winters called Bradley, I'm sure I would have been not just suspended, but kicked out of my association. Winters got off easy.

Look, I probably know Winters as well or better than anyone on this forum. Like I have said before, I like the guy. He was just wrong in this case. Should he be fired? Of course not, but some punishment was needed.

Rutledge, just for the record, I would feel the same way if it had happened to your favorite team or player too. It just happened to involve the team I root for. No homer here.

I blame Bud Black for injuring Bradley, and I blame Bradley for being a hothead to start with. But the suspension of Winters was warranted.

Please do not try to be overly dramatic. I do not see any umpire getting thrown out if all they did was use a "bad word." Suspended maybe, but not just using a bad word.

The previous comment is that you would have been thrown out of an association and now you are saying he should not be fired? Huh?

If Bradley did not get hurt and this was a regular ejection, no one would even have made an issue out of this. Since Winters is your friend, why not ask him what was said? I would not be surprised if his side of the story is a little different. Not to say that he did not make any comments that was inappropriate. You are going off about this as if you had some inside information and you do not.

Peace

YGTBSM!!! It wasn't just for using a bad word. Where did I ever say that?:confused:

Using a bad word is different from calling someone a F.P.O.S.

I was suspended for what I said I was suspended for (the fan incident). I then posted that if I had said what Winters said, I likely would have been kicked out of my (and Winters') association. I know how my association works, and you had better be on your best behavior on a ball field. I also said I was reprimanded for once saying the word "bullsh!t" in a conversational manner during an argument. Very strict.

Try to keep up here. I would have likely have been kicked out of my association for it. MLB obviously works differently. Their mileage apparently varies. I don't think it would be right for Winters to lose his job. I'm not a firedougeddings.com member. I also don't think it was right for me to get the suspension I received in 1991, but that's how the vote came down. Like I said, very strict disciplinarians. A couple enemies on the board didn't help matters.

Bradley got hurt because of Bud Black's two-point take-down/semi-suplex that he applied. I'm not blaming Mike Winters for that. I don't think the fact that Bradley got hurt is what is driving this story at all. It's all about the calling another human being something very foul and nasty. And it is more about a professional umpire saying something that disgusting to a player when he should be rising above such behavior. Words have meaning (a concept which liberals don't ever seem to grasp), and in this case they had repercussions.

I didn't say we were friends. I know him. He knows me. We don't hang out. Got it? Sure his story might be different, but MLB decided his story didn't jibe with what really happened, didn't it? I guess they know what's up.

I'm not "going off" about anything. Now you also are being obtuse (must be contagious). I never said I had any inside information. I have the same information as anyone else does, and that is that Winters said what has been reported.

What!!!???

Crew for tonight's Padres/Brewers game:

PU - Brian Runge
1B - John Hirshbeck
2B - Bruce Froemming
3B - Mark Wegner

Like I said, times have changed. If the Haller/Weaver tete a tete happened today, Haller would be suspended for saying "F*ck you, Earl."

Umpires, players and managers all had salty language and no one cried to mommy about it and no one lied about it, playing the race card. The San Diego first base coach set a new low for rats.

No more. MLB wants the umpires to clean up their act. Unfortunately F*cking pieces of sh!t like Bradley don't have to, but that's the game today. The umpires have been put on notice and they will simply have to play the game under the new rules.

Have I used profanity? Sure. I've told whining adult league batters to shut up and get in the f*ckin' box more than once. Suspend me.

Nothing wrong with saying this in a shaving age game (non-HS).

And therein lies my point exactly.

Who hasn't? Not the same as calling someone a dirty, disgusting name.

Sorry, Steve. I don't find, in the context of a heated exchange on the field, POS to be a dirty digusting name.

Umpires, managers and players have referred to one another by that name for years. Usually, however, umpires didn't initiate it, they repeated it in their replies.

I am not blaming Bradley for what Winter's did, but I agee that had Bradley not charged Winters and had the first base coach not lied, this would not have risen to the level it has.

But the fact is, it has risen to higher level and Winters must pay the consequences of his action.

I've thought it many times. I've almost blurted it out a few times too. But I never actually said what was on my mind. I always managed to either bite my tongue or say it in a way that was not offensive personally.

Tough call. One, for 99% of the population is a physical impossibility. The other is a vivid description that applies to certain individuals. How about combining them? "Hey you F***ing piece of sh!t, go F*** yourself."

That works. I think I'll send Bradley a get well card with a special message.

I only once lowered myself to the level of swearing at a player in an "adult" league game. I balked the pitcher, who had a reputation of being a no talent whiner. His first response was to come off the mound and get in my face, telling me "you're a blind MF'er, and that youdon't know WTF your're doing". My response was, " well, you're a gone MF'er, and I"m a much better umpire then you are a pitcher".

I turned and walked away. His team mates escorted him off the field, he got in his car and drove away.

Hey all,

The way I see it, Bradley did something wrong, but not enough for ejection. Later, Bradley initiates a situation, Winters escalated it, Bradley blows up.

Winters deserved a punishment for the escalation, Bradley got what he deserved for blowing up.

Umpires, especially at the MLB level, should not, and apparantly cannot, go onto the field with total immunity from their actions.

Maybe I am alone in this, but I think Meachum should get some sort of punishment for the LYING, not once, but two or three times, about what took place in the process of an investigation, as well.

LomUmp:cool:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by JRutledge
I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by JRutledge
I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying.
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Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
That is just too stupid for words, so I won't waste any.



Why does this remind me of two crippled frogs battling over a dead fly? Why? Why?

I understand he has a grrl and boyfriend.

Just trying to save you postage. :(

Uh, because you're really weird?

Hmmmm....

The worst thing I have ever said to a participant in a game I was working was, "SHUT UP!". (To an assistant assistant coach keeping score who felt compelled to insert himself into a conversation I was having with the head coach.)

I generally try to be more polite than that. But hey, I'm still pretty new at this.

JM

The rules haven't changed if you bring your head instead of your ego to the park. Why for the life of me do senior, experienced umpires - let me amend that, in fairness, I don't know how much ball you have called but you sound so old - who should have their act together get all hung up shouting expletives and acting out just like the whiny players. They have zero authority, you have all the authority. The whole affair is laughable, or ought to be.

To quote you "rats" is the term, yes? So your advice is to scurry right on down into their holes with them? :p

My goodness.

Originally Posted by GarthB
MLB wants the umpires to clean up their act. Unfortunately F*cking pieces of sh!t like Bradley don't have to, but that's the game today. The umpires have been put on notice and they will simply have to play the game under the new rules.

Again, just for Garth.

Don't know if anyone caught this, but a quote from the dirtbag 1BC....

Hey all,

Where did this report come from? Is this the only thing this RAT had to say? I'm sorry, he not a rat, he's a LYING RAT!!!

LomUmp:cool:

Y'all are starting to sound like a bunch of Padre haters. Don't hate the player baby, hate the game.

Don't know if you caught this from the New York Post:

PAGING DR. HEIMLICH

I see nothing wrong with hating the lying POS rat first base coach.

That is an interesting quote from Meacham, because it appears to corroborate the author's source in this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb...?urn=mlb,46959

Meacham states that, "It was not baiting. Those were just the easiest words to select." Passan states in his article that his source told him that Bradley told Winters not to treat him like a POS, and leaves it to us to guess the rest.

Very interesting. I'm wondering who baited whom.

"I see nothing wrong with hating the lying POS rat first base coach."

Garth, you're an educated, articulate man, and yet you write stuff like this? Shame on you!

Yep. Shame on me for condemning the coach who told the media that Winters made a racial slur, then changed his story to Winters made a comment that could be taken racially, then changed his story to one in which no racial accusation was made.

Shame on me for condeming the coach who threw Winters under the bus with his lies.

Shame on me for condemning the coach who never retracted his original statement and let Winters twist in the wind for two days hung by the racial accusation.

Yep. Shame on me for referring to him as a lying POS rat coach, and of all places, on an umpire forum.

And good for you, coach, for standing up for him.

Enjoy another first round sweep from your loser team.

The issue of "baiting" strikes me as a red herring. It seems to assume that the baitee is not in control of himself, and (mis)places the responsibility for such lack of control on others who might "say the wrong thing," on purpose or by accident.

Yeah, our loser team with the best pitching staff in the NL. The loser team with the 2007 NL Cy Young Award winner. Our loser team with the most acrobatic shortstop in the NL. Our loser team is highly entertaining to watch, and has provided many thrills for our city over the years, and we love them no matter whether we get bounced in the first round or not. Our loser team would love to go to the Series again, but we won't slit our wrists if we don't.

The Mets are reminding people of the '64 Phillies with their meltdown.

I didn't know you were a Giant fan. I guess you are SanFranciscoSteve, since they are the loser team with the most acrobatic shortstop in the NL.

I wonder if MLB placed a gag order on Mike Winters to avoid controversy. I'm sure they spoke to him about his comments, regardless or his suspension. No mention of a grievance being filed in his behalf. So far, all I've read are posters slamming the people that have spoken out on the incident that took place. I would be very interested to hear Winters' version.

dropped out of 1st place for first time since mid may and are 2 games out of wild card with 2 to play. better to be swept out of first round that not even make the playoffs, i'd say.

i haven't read through this whole thread and don't really have the energy to, so i apologize if this is has come up already. baiting players is not terribly uncommon. i wasn't there, and obviously can't speak for winters. however, i can take a stab at what went on. winters saw bradley throw the bat, and went and talked to the crew about it. they probably were pissed at themselves for not dumping him then, and winters then baited bradley to get him to dump himself after he should have been dumped already. no big deal, same result as what should have taken place already. bradley turned it into a big deal with his circus act and i find it very amusing that he ended up with a busted up knee for acting a fool.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

There is a record of what happened...from the interviews MLB did with Winters, Bradley, the coach and the first basemen. There is absolutely no doubt that Winters baited Bradley or Winters would not have been suspended.

It makes absolutely no difference to the penalty what the status of the pennant race is or, for that matter, that Bradley was hurt.

There is no excuse for any umpire, let alone a professional one, to bait a player into an ejection.

Winters was not accused of racism, he was found guilty of being profane and abusive.

I don't consider Visquel to be acrobatic, he just has the best range of all shortstops, and a great fielding percentage. Give me Khalil Greene anyday for exciting, impossible looking plays. I'll put up his highlight reel up against Visquel's anytime. Unless you live here, you don't get to see all the unbelievable plays he makes, because they don't make Sports Center due to the late games of the West coast.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten to mention the all-time saves leader, who has 42 this season and over 500 for his career who plays on this lousy team.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

Meacham accused Winters of a "racial comment" in his first comments to the media. He later changed that to a comment that "could be taken" as a racial comment. He later dropped the allegation all together when the F3 was called to testify.

I think the sequence of events was something like this...

The PU rings up Bradley, who throws has bat. The PU doesn't take much notice of the thrown bat.

Winters informs the PU that Bradley threw his bat at him.

When Bradley comes up again, the PU mentions the incident to Bradley and, apparently, adds that the 1st base umpire had told him about it.

Bradley gets a hit and reaches first.

When Bradley arrives at 1st, words are exchanged between Bradley and Winters. It is unclear who started it, but I suspect it probably started with Bradley saying something to Winters.

Even if Bradley "started it", Winters should not say anything that would put fuel on the fire ... which apparently he DID.

There is plenty of blame to go around - of that I'll agree.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

I never consider acrobatic plays to be the indication of a Gold Glove player. Hell, I've made plenty of acrobatic plays in my lifetime. Let me break it down for you.

Omar Vizquel won nine Gold Gloves in a row in the American League before the unbalanced schedule went into effect. He has won the last two in National League at the age of 38 and 39. Vizquel also has the Major League record for career double plays by a shortstop. Also, he has the lifetime career fielding percentage (.985) for a shortstop in major league history. I believe Major League Baseball bases such things on a thousand games.

Now your boy Greene, has a lifetime fielding percentage of .975, to go along with career batting averag of .254. This compares with Omar's career average of .275.

You just never saw Omar play enough to appreciate what a master he was, and still is, in the field.

First of all, I doubt that you have ever been the class of athlete either Vizquel or Greene are, so your acrobatic talent counts for squadouche.

Second, how do you know how much of Omar I've seen? I've seen plenty. I watched all the games back in the day when he was with Cleveland. I know what a great shortstop he is. I will still put up Greene's highlight reel up against Vizquel's head-to-head. I've been around this game just as long as you have, so don't think you know any more about baseball than I do because that's just not the case.

I never tried to compare statistics, I just said that for my money, Greene is more exciting to watch. For me. How do think you can compare Vizquel to Greene. Greene is just at the start of his career. He is still on the upswing. Vizquel, whether you admit it or not, is in his twilight years.

Greene not only makes the spectacular plays, but he is a fine everyday shortstop who makes very few errors and has a cannon arm.

Now I will compare 2007 (the only relevant season) statistics:

Greene: AVE - .254, OBP - .293, Slugging pct. - .470, OPS - .763

Doubles - 44, HR - 26, RBI - 96.

Vizquel: AVE - .245, OBP - .304, Slugging pct. - .309, OPS - .613

Doubles - 18, HR - 3, RBI - 49.

So, for this season at least, I think I'll take Khalil Greene.

Oh, Khalil has your boy hangin'.

The facts were determined by MLB by interviewing the people involved, not by reading the newspapers.

Blaming the first base coach may make you feel better.

But Winters was the one punished.

With Winters taking the "hit" as he should.

Aw, the crux, mbyron, adults or not, accountable or not? ;)

Your previous post suggests that Winters should be the one held accountable. This post seems to suggest that all involved should be held accountable. Which is it?