Brushing off the picthing plate and the bases

[greymule]

There's no requirement to be in contact with the rubber at the time the pitch is released. Same as in baseball

How's that again?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by greymule

There's no requirement to be in contact with the rubber at the time the pitch is released. Same as in baseball

How's that again?

There is no requirement to be in contact with the rubber at the time the pitch is released. Same as in baseball.

He only need be in contact at the time of the pitch. It is nearly impossible to stay in contact with the rubber at the time of the release, as the pitcher's momentum and weight has shifted onto his front leg.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It is nearly impossible to stay in contact with the rubber at the time of the release, as the pitcher's momentum and weight has shifted onto his front leg.

http://www.newbalancetampa.com/blog/.../pitcherNB.jpg

http://www.craiggibsonbaseball.com/B...NewRelease.jpg

[SanDiegoSteve]

Thank you for illustrating my point, fitty.

[greymule]

OK, I see what you mean. In baseball there's a slight disengagement practically simultaneous with the release. The pivot foot comes off just after the other foot hits the ground. (Funny, even as a pitcher, I never considered exactly what was happening during the motion.) But the nature of the overhand delivery makes it virtually impossible to "crow hop," so a replant of the pivot foot isn't an issue.

But in FP, the disengagement occurs much earlier, when the pitcher's arm is beginning to descend behind her. At the time of release, the pivot foot is several feet in front of the rubber, and the umpire has to be watching for a replant. (I do a lot of ASA and NCAA, and it's not difficult to spot.) After a FP game, the "groove" on the mound is long and deep. There's no such groove after a baseball game.

Now assuming a baseball pitcher wanted to pitch underhand, would the FP motion be legal?

it must be clear to the BU that the pitcher does have both feet in contact with the pitcher's plate at the beginning of the pitching motion

You make some good points, VanStanza, but remember that in Fed, the pitchers don't have to have both feet in contact. (However, I hear Fed is considering getting the rule in line with ASA and NCAA.) But the pitchers I see don't start with the right heel in contact with the front of the rubber. They generally put the pivot foot squarely on the rubber so that they can push off with the entire foot. And NCAA requires that at least half the foot be on the top surface of the pitcher's plate, while ASA does not.

[UmpLarryJohnson]

still dont see why FP softyball is discussed here

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

still dont see why FP softyball is discussed here

It's at least as relevant as starting a new thread on Joe Morgan that has nothing to do with rules or umpiring.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's at least as relevant as starting a new thread on Joe Morgan that has nothing to do with rules or umpiring.

He probably started a new Joe Morgan thread to replace the one that mysteriously disappeared.

[greymule]

still dont see why FP softyball is discussed here

It is discussed as it relates to baseball. I am one of many umpires who do both baseball and softball, and I don't try to insulate understanding of one game from understanding of the other. Softball derived from baseball, and in my opinion is best understood in that context. It is instructive, for example, in studying softball rules, such as with regard to INT and OBR, to understand how they differ from (or are similar to) OBR. That principle can work the other way, too.

There are people on the softball board who get upset when someone invokes baseball, but if comparing the rule sets aids in the understanding of some aspect of one or the other, I don't see any problem.

I know there are baseball umps who look down on softball and act as if any discussion of it—much less the officiating of it—would somehow be beneath them. I'm not one of them.

It's not as if somebody decided to use the baseball board to pose a question on field hockey.

I've been participating in these boards for years, and if a thread takes a turn that doesn't interest me, it's easy to ignore it.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Thank you for illustrating my point, fitty.

Welcome, wanna know something that few do?

There is more force applied to the arm of the FP pitcher than the same aged baseball pitcher.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Welcome, wanna know something that few do?

There is more force applied to the arm of the FP pitcher than the same aged baseball pitcher.

I'd disagree with that - as well as virtually every doctor that has studied the topic. I believe most rule sets allow the girls to pitch much more than the guys of the same age. Even LL did a study this past year and that's why they put the boys on pitch count - but not the girls. FP motion puts far less strain on the arm than a baseball motion.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I'd disagree with that - as well as virtually every doctor that has studied the topic.

You may disagree but :

"Dr. Sherry Werner of the Tulane Institute of Sports Medicine has been researching pitching mechanics for 19 years. She studied windmill pitchers as they performed throwing exercises. Different intervals of the pitch were observed, and kinetic calculations of the shoulder joints were calculated and then compared to those of baseball pitchers. What her research found was the stress placed on the shoulder joints was similar to baseball pitchers."

http://softballwest.com/articles/183/

My former employer worked with athletes and had more FP SB F2s than any other athlete in for post-rehab. Sherry was a frequent visitor.

I believe most rule sets allow the girls to pitch much more than the guys of the same age. Even LL did a study this past year and that's why they put the boys on pitch count - but not the girls. FP motion puts far less strain on the arm than a baseball motion.

It does but to a point. The FP pitcher stresses the elbow joint much less (less twisting) and the force is more vertical than horizontal to the shoulder joint. Larger muscles are involved for FP. Nonethe less, the amopunt of force in terms of bodyweight is nearly the same.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by fitump56

You may disagree but :

"Dr. Sherry Werner of the Tulane Institute of Sports Medicine has been researching pitching mechanics for 19 years. She studied windmill pitchers as they performed throwing exercises. Different intervals of the pitch were observed, and kinetic calculations of the shoulder joints were calculated and then compared to those of baseball pitchers. What her research found was the stress placed on the shoulder joints was similar to baseball pitchers."

http://softballwest.com/articles/183/

My former employer worked with athletes and had more FP SB F2s than any other athlete in for post-rehab. Sherry was a frequent visitor.


It does but to a point. The FP pitcher stresses the elbow joint much less (less twisting) and the force is more vertical than horizontal to the shoulder joint. Larger muscles are involved for FP. Nonethe less, the amopunt of force in terms of bodyweight is nearly the same.

Similar? Yes. . . More? (As you said in your post) No. It was your "more stress" that got my attention. Sherry also said that while a player shouldn't throw game after game after game every other weekend - she did say that it was OK occasionally. I don't think any doctor would say that about a baseball motion . . . but I could be wrong on that too.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by fitump56

my boss saw more girls F2s than boys.

F2's or F1's?

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

F2's or F1's?

Both actually but significantly (by %) more girl F1s. Male F1s tended to have more diverse injuries probably caused by the fact that they often played other positions. Female F2s lower back and knees.