Smittyisms

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by rei

Mr.Childress also condones calling a play at a base the way it looks obvious to everybody else, even if it is the wrong call.

Just because Carl says it doesn't mean it is a good idea.

You have that a bit wrong. The call that's obvious to everyone is the *right* call. The call can't be, "wrong," if it's obvious to everyone. It might not be exactly what you think you saw, but it's most certainly the *right* call.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

You have that a bit wrong. The call that's obvious to everyone is the *right* call. The call can't be, "wrong," if it's obvious to everyone. It might not be exactly what you think you saw, but it's most certainly the *right* call.

And why praytell would you make a call contrary to what you saw?
That indeed would be a smittyism

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

And why praytell would you make a call contrary to what you saw?
That indeed would be a smittyism

Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?

I have to admit, I'd call the runner safe in this situation if I'm picturing the play correctly. It's a great baseball play to slide to the back of the base to avoid the tag.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I have to admit, I'd call the runner safe in this situation if I'm picturing the play correctly. It's a great baseball play to slide to the back of the base to avoid the tag.

Rich:

I don't believe you read the situation carefully. Jenkins and Publius did. No telling about DM.

[Publius]

If I "think" I saw the runner in GarthB's play touch the base a microsecond before the tag, I'd call him out. If I "know" I did, safe is the call.


quiz II:

R1, one out. Batter singles to right center, R1 touches 2nd and heads for third, F8's throw goes there too. On the throw, B/R heads for 2nd.

F8's throw beats the head-first sliding runner by a narrow margin, and F5 lays down a tag on R1, then throws to 2nd in an attempt to get B/R advancing there. Everyone in the park "saw" F5 tag R1--everyone but you, the PU, who had a perfect angle and who saw him tag the dirt inches in front of R1's hand, then throw to 2nd before R1 could slide into the tag.

Your call?

[DG]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?

Micro-second my 8ss. I have an easy OUT call. I am not going to let the right half overule the left half.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?

Exactly, my call, not anyone elses, not the folks in the gandstand, not the coaches and not F5.
SAFE
If you are implying that you would call out, would that be too placate the spectators or the def coach?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?

It depends on the slide.

Here's two consecutive plays from a game a couple of years ago; I was BU.

R1 stealing. Throw in plenty of time, tag in front of the base (toward first). R1 head first slide. Shows the left hand, then takes it away at the same time as he reaches for the outside of the base with the right hand. Call: Safe. Some defenders saw the move; some didn't. I don't recall what the spectators saw.

A couple of pitches later, now R2 steals third. Same throw, same tag, different slide. R2 goes straight into the base. Call: Out. R2 gets up and trots to his position, but says to me: "He never tagged me. My hads went on either side of the glove. Still, I went straight in, so that was a good call."

One of the posters on the basketball side says, "Don't be a plumber." That is, don't go looking for ****.

I interpret that as look at what you need to look at. If the throw is there, the tag is there and the slide is "normal", I've seen all I need to see (that's the second play above). If something is different, I look harder (that's the first play above).

Same thing on the "neighborhood play" -- if everyone does what they're supposed to be doing, I've seen enough -- I don't look for the miss. If something is amiss, then I look to see what really happened.

shrug. works for me (for now).

[njdevs00cup]

R1 at 1B trots to second base on a ball hit to F8, who misplays the ball. Third base coach emphatically signals R1 to third when he sees the misplay.
R1 picks him up late. Ball beats him by ten feet, lazy slide, tag, he's out!

R1 pops up and says, "he missed the tag!" Third base coach, "shut your mouth, the ball beat you and wouldn't have if you were hustling. Get your *ss of the field and sit!"

I can only say WOW to some of these posts!

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It depends on the slide.

Here's two consecutive plays from a game a couple of years ago; I was BU.

R1 stealing. Throw in plenty of time, tag in front of the base (toward first). R1 head first slide. Shows the left hand, then takes it away at the same time as he reaches for the outside of the base with the right hand. Call: Safe. Some defenders saw the move; some didn't. I don't recall what the spectators saw.

A couple of pitches later, now R2 steals third. Same throw, same tag, different slide. R2 goes straight into the base. Call: Out. R2 gets up and trots to his position, but says to me: "He never tagged me. My hads went on either side of the glove. Still, I went straight in, so that was a good call."

One of the posters on the basketball side says, "Don't be a plumber." That is, don't go looking for ****.

I interpret that as look at what you need to look at. If the throw is there, the tag is there and the slide is "normal", I've seen all I need to see (that's the second play above). If something is different, I look harder (that's the first play above).

Same thing on the "neighborhood play" -- if everyone does what they're supposed to be doing, I've seen enough -- I don't look for the miss. If something is amiss, then I look to see what really happened.

shrug. works for me (for now).

Exactly the way I've called it for years. The good umpires know the difference, the "not so good umpires" will continue to make a guess about the call.

MLB has changed some, but in reality not much. The only reason we see more "changed calls' is that just about all of the games are on TV now where before only the big market teams were on each night and the Braves.

I'm sure as we get older though it is going to change more and more. I don't know IMO if that is going to be a good thing though ...

Thansk
David

I started umpiring 21 years ago. Certainly, I umpired a long time in the "old skool" way.

So now the NCAA has this "Get the call right" concept going on. Great!

Here is what I have found.

Most coaches don't abuse this at all. If I seek help from my partner and the call goes against the coach who asked, they usually accept it and often will thank me for asking.

I have found too that many coaches are a LOT more accepting of the calls that seem to be "obvious" the wrong way (like it seemed like an obvious tag, except the fielder did not actually put the tag on). Some coaches I have talked to about this say "It is a good learning experience for the players".

MANY coaches I have talked to like that I don't call the runner out on the "neighborhood play" , and admit that they like that I call what I see, even if it goes against them.

One thing I have noticed about umpires. If it is for a strike or an out, you guys that subscribe to the "call the obvious ones the way everybody else sees it" are all for it. But when it concerns a ball or safe, you typically use the "we are out here for outs", and some even go as far as to say silly stuff like "Yeah, I missed it, but I missed it for an out!" complete with the wink.

Horsecrap!!! All of it is horsecrap umpiring.

I have moved on up the levels just fine calling THE GAME THAT I SEE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Coaches, players, evaluators NEVER question my integrity, and players are usually quick to agree with my RIGHT call even though it went against them. They KNOW it will go both ways.

I do not find it that hard to call a consistent game just calling what I see. Are there arguements? Sure! But I don't have any more of them than the next guy.

If you think the neighborhood call, or the "ball beat the runner" call is a good idea, I first thought is you have become a dinasour in umpiring. It may still be "working" for you, but, you are losing the respect from players and coaches. Maybe you don't care about that. This would suggest you are on the downhill side of your "career" in umpiring.

Any of you "newer" guys that care to move up, consider your integrity before you subscribe to some of this old school thinking about umpiring.

Myself, I am proud to call a fair game, and have been rewarded for my hard work and integrity.

[David B]

Originally Posted by rei

One thing I have noticed about umpires. If it is for a strike or an out, you guys that subscribe to the "call the obvious ones the way everybody else sees it" are all for it. But when it concerns a ball or safe, you typically use the "we are out here for outs", and some even go as far as to say silly stuff like "Yeah, I missed it, but I missed it for an out!" complete with the wink.

I think you missed the point, but this part fits the thread well since this is definitely "Smitty" at his best.

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

I started umpiring 21 years ago. Certainly, I umpired a long time in the "old skool" way.

So now the NCAA has this "Get the call right" concept going on. Great!

Here is what I have found.

Most coaches don't abuse this at all. If I seek help from my partner and the call goes against the coach who asked, they usually accept it and often will thank me for asking.

I have found too that many coaches are a LOT more accepting of the calls that seem to be "obvious" the wrong way (like it seemed like an obvious tag, except the fielder did not actually put the tag on). Some coaches I have talked to about this say "It is a good learning experience for the players".

MANY coaches I have talked to like that I don't call the runner out on the "neighborhood play" , and admit that they like that I call what I see, even if it goes against them.

One thing I have noticed about umpires. If it is for a strike or an out, you guys that subscribe to the "call the obvious ones the way everybody else sees it" are all for it. But when it concerns a ball or safe, you typically use the "we are out here for outs", and some even go as far as to say silly stuff like "Yeah, I missed it, but I missed it for an out!" complete with the wink.

Horsecrap!!! All of it is horsecrap umpiring.

I have moved on up the levels just fine calling THE GAME THAT I SEE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Coaches, players, evaluators NEVER question my integrity, and players are usually quick to agree with my RIGHT call even though it went against them. They KNOW it will go both ways.

I do not find it that hard to call a consistent game just calling what I see. Are there arguements? Sure! But I don't have any more of them than the next guy.

If you think the neighborhood call, or the "ball beat the runner" call is a good idea, I first thought is you have become a dinasour in umpiring. It may still be "working" for you, but, you are losing the respect from players and coaches. Maybe you don't care about that. This would suggest you are on the downhill side of your "career" in umpiring.

Any of you "newer" guys that care to move up, consider your integrity before you subscribe to some of this old school thinking about umpiring.

Myself, I am proud to call a fair game, and have been rewarded for my hard work and integrity.

From another 21-or-so year guy: I couldn't have written it any better. Where I work college ball (only D-3 in my area) I call it exactly how I see it. I did call the runner safe for sliding into the back of the base last year and when the coach came out, that's exactly what I told him. I called a big missed tag in a D3 conference tourney this year and I expected to take grief for it, and the coach didn't even move out of his seat except to get on his fielder for sloppy play. Ten years ago, I would've called the runner out without a thought.

Now, do I go looking for a RCH's distance between the glove and the body? No. But the defense has got to do its job. Things have changed and the NCAA's "get it right" mentality along with the change in the show is responsible.