Smittyisms

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by rei

I started umpiring 21 years ago. Certainly, I umpired a long time in the "old skool" way.

So now the NCAA has this "Get the call right" concept going on. Great!

Here is what I have found.

Most coaches don't abuse this at all. If I seek help from my partner and the call goes against the coach who asked, they usually accept it and often will thank me for asking.

I have found too that many coaches are a LOT more accepting of the calls that seem to be "obvious" the wrong way (like it seemed like an obvious tag, except the fielder did not actually put the tag on). Some coaches I have talked to about this say "It is a good learning experience for the players".

MANY coaches I have talked to like that I don't call the runner out on the "neighborhood play" , and admit that they like that I call what I see, even if it goes against them.

One thing I have noticed about umpires. If it is for a strike or an out, you guys that subscribe to the "call the obvious ones the way everybody else sees it" are all for it. But when it concerns a ball or safe, you typically use the "we are out here for outs", and some even go as far as to say silly stuff like "Yeah, I missed it, but I missed it for an out!" complete with the wink.

Horsecrap!!! All of it is horsecrap umpiring.

I have moved on up the levels just fine calling THE GAME THAT I SEE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Coaches, players, evaluators NEVER question my integrity, and players are usually quick to agree with my RIGHT call even though it went against them. They KNOW it will go both ways.

I do not find it that hard to call a consistent game just calling what I see. Are there arguements? Sure! But I don't have any more of them than the next guy.

If you think the neighborhood call, or the "ball beat the runner" call is a good idea, I first thought is you have become a dinasour in umpiring. It may still be "working" for you, but, you are losing the respect from players and coaches. Maybe you don't care about that. This would suggest you are on the downhill side of your "career" in umpiring.

Any of you "newer" guys that care to move up, consider your integrity before you subscribe to some of this old school thinking about umpiring.

Myself, I am proud to call a fair game, and have been rewarded for my hard work and integrity.

Much of what I see among the Old Hats who call games to keep themselves out of trouble ("Call what the fans/coaches want!") is this central theme that few (any of them?) admit. They are slaves to the money, They need the money. They HAVE to have the money.

Want to call games then don't make calls that look one way from a distance, take the easy route, call what you think will get you in the least trouble.

This would be a much more tolerable practice if the Old Hats would admit to their need for money.

They won't, they will perpetuate their financial lies and why not? Is it any different than the compromises they make in the officiating of the game the way they compromise their integrity?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I think what you saw was a 4 man rotation, R1 and a shot into right field. U1 goes out, R2 rotates toward 1b, U3 rotates to 2b, PU rotates up toward 3rd, I think...(trying to recall my 4 man). PU was coming back to take the play at the plate, in fair territory.

I'm sure someone will skewer me if I'm wrong.

The hit was a hard ground ball inside the first base line that U1 called fair. There was no possibly of a play at third. Seems like he could have rotated home a little quicker.

[Jim Porter]

Wow, kind of spooky that Carl Childress just mentioned yesterday one of my articles from seven years ago on this very topic.
http://baseball.officiating.com/x/article/5591

And I guess it has worked well for someone:
http://forum.officiating.com/showpost.php?p=50527

[lawump]

We can argue all day and give our opinions about making the "expected call" and the virtues of doing so.

However, it will not change this FACT: this method of umpiring was taught at both umpire school and PBUC camp. These groups are, arguably, the top in top in the world of umpire training. They both teach it. It has nothing to do with "making the fans happy", etc.

What it is, is a small part of "letting the players take care of things themselves," OR "calling the game the way BOTH teams expect the game to be called."

When ball beats runner to the bag, fielder puts the glove with the ball down and the runner does nothing but slide directly into the bag...then the runner is going to be called out.

Example:

R1, steal. Throw from F2 beats R1 by a mile. F4 or F6 gloves the throw and puts the glove with ball down in front of second base well ahead of R1. F4 or F6 then pulls the tag up a little early (probably he doesn't wan't to get spiked). Nothing blatant...just enough for you the umpire to know there was no "actual" tag. R1 did nothing but slide directly into second base (basically giving himself up.) He did nothing (no fancy slide, etc.) to try to avoid the tag.

What do you call?

Some on this thread would call "safe". That is you, as umpire, saw there was no tag so you call him "safe". Many, including me, would call that the call of an amateur (or "inexperienced" umpire). (or call it a "MLB call" as I pointed out above...but with which Jim Porter disagreed.)

I would call him "out". Many, including me, would call that a professional call. We talk about amateur umpires acting like "professionals" on the field. This, IMHO, is an example. (I'm not talking about acting like "professional umpires"...I'm talking about the broader concept of being "professional".)

I've never had a manager/head coach (on the pro, college or varsity level) argue that a runner was "safe" on such a play. However, when I have taken the short end of the stick (once or twice) I have had a manager come screaming out of the dugout, "how can you make that %^&$ call the throw beat the runner and the tag was down!"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by lawump

I would call him "out". Many, including me, would call that a professional call. We talk about amateur umpires acting like "professionals" on the field. This, IMHO, is an example. (I'm not talking about acting like "professional umpires"...I'm talking about the broader concept of being "professional".)

I agree with the substance of your post, law. I suggest that the idea you're trying to express here is: one doesn't have to be a professional umpire to umpire with professionalism.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by lawump

However, it will not change this FACT: this method of umpiring was taught at both umpire school and PBUC camp. These groups are, arguably, the top in top in the world of umpire training.

Does anyone know what they teach today?

Originally Posted by lawump

What it is, is a small part of "letting the players take care of things themselves," OR "calling the game the way BOTH teams expect the game to be called."

Take care of what themselves?
We're not talking about knockdown pitches, we're talking tag/no tag. I think they expect the ump to make the call.

Originally Posted by lawump

When ball beats runner to the bag, fielder puts the glove with the ball down and the runner does nothing but slide directly into the bag...then the runner is going to be called out.

Example:

R1, steal. Throw from F2 beats R1 by a mile. F4 or F6 gloves the throw and puts the glove with ball down in front of second base well ahead of R1. F4 or F6 then pulls the tag up a little early (probably he doesn't wan't to get spiked). Nothing blatant...just enough for you the umpire to know there was no "actual" tag. R1 did nothing but slide directly into second base (basically giving himself up.) He did nothing (no fancy slide, etc.) to try to avoid the tag.

What do you call?

Safe
It's our job to call the game according to the rules. Coaches job to teach the player good tagging techniques and the players job to execute.
If you call an out in the above sitch then at least 2 people have failed to do their job.

Originally Posted by lawump

I've never had a manager/head coach (on the pro, college or varsity level) argue that a runner was "safe" on such a play.

maybe his angle and distance from the dugout prevented him from seeing the missed tag.

Originally Posted by lawump

However, when I have taken the short end of the stick (once or twice) I have had a manager come screaming out of the dugout, "how can you make that %^&$ call the throw beat the runner and the tag was down!"

maybe his angle and distance from the dugout prevented him from seeing the missed tag or maybe he just wanted you to bail out his team for their miscue.

[lawump]

Don,

As you and I have for most of this thread...we'll just have disagree and leave it at that.

[charliej47]

Four years ago I was working a girl’s seasonal final playoff for first place. I was “bumped” by the HC of the home team when I issued a warning to the pitcher for a quick pitch. I forfeited the game to the visiting team and called the police because the FD refused to when I requested assistance.

The HC left and went home before the police arrived and after the investigation, the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault.

One of the umpires in my association heard about this and told everyone that it had to be my fault as the HC was a friend of his and he never would have touched anyone.

This same umpire will argue with parents and make calls that will get him yelled at all the time.

He will bad mouth his fellow umpires to any coach that has a complaint and will agree with any coach about any call.

He has been around for a long time and cries constantly about not getting any of the “good” games.

He even give your local “smithies” a bad name.

[UmpLarryJohnson]

you TRIED to press CHARGES for a BUMP?

[charliej47]

If I had not been fast on my feet and his asst coach had not grabbed him, I would have been seriously hurt. Where I grew up, you learned to be fast or accepted that you were going to get beat up all the time.

When I saw him coming, my reflexes kicked in and I was moving away when he "bumped" me. If I had not been moving, I would have been on the ground. I knew of him and he had the rep of being a hothead.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

you TRIED to press CHARGES for a BUMP?

He didn't say press charges, he called for police backup. I would have too.

[UmpLarryJohnson]

Originally Posted by fitump56

He didn't say press charges, he called for police backup. I would have too.

The HC left and went home before the police arrived and after the investigation, the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault.

uh NO. he said there was an INVESTIGATION. and he obviuosly ASKED to press
charges cause the POLICE told him it wouldnt WORK.

i know the DIFF between BACKUP and CHARGES, FITTY

[fitump56]

The HC left and went home before the police arrived and after the investigation, the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault.

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

uh NO. he said there was an INVESTIGATION. and he obviuosly ASKED to press
charges cause the POLICE told him it wouldnt WORK.

i know the DIFF between BACKUP and CHARGES, FITTY

Nowhere did the poster claim he was filing charges, he was relating, and was informed, "the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault."

Now, if you can show us where the poster claims to have filed an assault charge or has clearly claimed that he was intending to file an assault charge, then you will be without error.

Since you can't..........

[UmpLarryJohnson]

Originally Posted by fitump56

The HC left and went home before the police arrived and after the investigation, the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault.



Nowhere did the poster claim he was filing charges, he was relating, and was informed, "the police told me that since I was able to stay on my feet, I would not be able to make any charges “stick” for assault."

Now, if you can show us where the poster claims to have filed an assault charge or has clearly claimed that he was intending to file an assault charge, then you will be without error.

Since you can't..........

WOW Fitty, I guess your ARROGANCE wont let you let go.

I said (QUOTED for your TRIAL EVIDANCE, conselor):

you TRIED to press CHARGES for a BUMP?

I NEVER SAID he FILED -- I ASKED if he TRIED. (see above). THATS what the QUESTION mark means. Do you read LINEUP CARDS as well as you READ POSTS?

HE WOULD have FILED had the COPS let him. It was his INTENT to do so I WAS comenting on. WHY DONT you address ISSUES instead of this "frustrated high school debate team looser" JUNK? do you UMPIRE or just COMB POSTS for tangents all day?

[Rcichon]

Cop is a douchebag. I dont know what state you're in but any contact of a game official in any sport in CT is a Felony period.

I'd press charges against him.