Consensus for an unbelieving offspring, please

[LakeErieUmp]

My 14 year old son, as with most offspring, refuses to believe just about anything I tell him but he has agreed to listen to the consensus of this board. (By the way, he's a fairly decent and smart player - 10 Ks in four innings pitched Monday and is a solid catcher when not pitching, in other words, he knows his primary responsibility is to not let PU get hit!)

ANYWAY, he does not believe me when I tell him that he can immediately take off as a runner when a pitcher in the windup position moves anything. In other words, that F1 has only two options (other than stepping back from the rubber). F1 can step toward a base and throw to it otherwise once anything moves F1 can only deliver a pitch.

Frosty-glassed adult post-game beverages are on me for your responses.

Thanks!

[JeremyByrd]

I'm going to have to go with the 14 year old...
F1 starts with one hand at his side and the glove in front. F1 may move his right hand into his glove. This movement does not require him to pitch.

[LakeErieUmp]

True, Jeremy, but that's not the kind of anything I was referring to. I basically meant once the pitcher is in the windup and gathers his hands.

[JeremyByrd]

We agree, then. Be careful though, if you teach him too much he might know more than his coach!

[bossman72]

obviously watch for the pivot foot disengaging also, but that's a no-brainer

[BigUmp56]

Every season I see a couple of pitchers who know how to legally step back from the windup with their pivot foot without showing a concurrent motion to pitch with their hands, and pick off a runner. It's a thing of beauty when done correctly, although it always brings an interesting exchange with the offensive manager that wan'ts a balk called.


Tim.

[johnnyg08]

If you go with what you're saying in the literal sense...a runner can go whenever he wants...wind or stretch position...neither position is "granting permission" to go...the pitcher can still pick off from the wind position...1 fliud motion to the base is all he needs to do here.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It's more than a myth, it's a balk. He can't pick a runner off from the windup. Only the windup position.

BTW-What kind word is wan'ts

OBR

8.01
Legal pitching delivery.


From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:
(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or
(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or
(3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides).

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

ANYWAY, he does not believe me when I tell him that he can immediately take off as a runner when a pitcher in the windup position moves anything. In other words, that F1 has only two options (other than stepping back from the rubber). F1 can step toward a base and throw to it otherwise once anything moves F1 can only deliver a pitch.

What rule set are you playing?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by waltjp

What rule set are you playing?

Good point, Walt. I didn't even consider they may be playing under FED rules.


Tim.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Good point, Walt. I didn't even consider they may be playing under FED rules.


Tim.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56
Every season I see a couple of pitchers who know how to legally step back from the windup with their pivot foot without showing a concurrent motion to pitch with their hands, and pick off a runner. It's a thing of beauty when done correctly, although it always brings an interesting exchange with the offensive manager that wan'ts a balk called.



Isn't this the definition of FED. Legally step back......

[DG]

If your son might play a game somewhere down the road under FED rules he may need to know that a pitcher can not make a pickoff move from the windup position. He can under OBR but not FED. It would be best for the lad to just assume that he can be picked off from the windup and act accordingly.

[David B]

Originally Posted by DG

If your son might play a game somewhere down the road under FED rules he may need to know that a pitcher can not make a pickoff move from the windup position. He can under OBR but not FED. It would be best for the lad to just assume that he can be picked off from the windup and act accordingly.

But the question remains, who has ever seen someone pick a runner off from the windup position. (OBR rules of course)

I know that it is legal, but have never seen it done. Often wondered why, but figured probably because most umpires do NOT know the rule and would call it a balk.

But for the 14 year old, keep listening to your Dad. It will usually keep you out of trouble down the road.

Thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David B

But the question remains, who has ever seen someone pick a runner off from the windup position. (OBR rules of course)

I know that it is legal, but have never seen it done. Often wondered why, but figured probably because most umpires do NOT know the rule and would call it a balk.

I have seen quite a few pitchers attempt pickoffs from the windup position (some successfully), both directly from the rubber, and also by quickly stepping off with the pivot foot. I would say that 99% of the umpires I've worked with (last season's gang excepted ) would know that it was legal, and not call it a balk. Why would "most" umpires not know this?

[DG]

Originally Posted by David B

But the question remains, who has ever seen someone pick a runner off from the windup position. (OBR rules of course)

I know that it is legal, but have never seen it done. Often wondered why, but figured probably because most umpires do NOT know the rule and would call it a balk.

I have never seen a successful pickoff from the windup, but I have seen many successful putouts when the pitcher stepped off the rubber with the correct foot and made the play.