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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:00pm
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another one
This came up at a discussion at work. Bases loaded 1 out. Grounder hit to 3rd baseman, he tags the runner coming from second and throws to second to force the runner coming from first. Before the throw is completed, the runner on third touches home. Does the run count?
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The officials lament, or the coaches excuses as it were: "I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you" 
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:05pm
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Imagine if you will, F5 throwing instead to F4 and they turned a 5-4-3 double play. Would the run count then?
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Bob P. ----------------------- We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:14pm
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I am not an umpire
RPatrino,
I am not an umpire, I am a football/basketball official. So this was my original thought. If the 5-4-3 is completed, I know the run doesn't count because you got the batter out. The discussion centered on whether the guy being forced at 2nd is the same as if the batter were forced at 1st. So if I read you correctly, you are saying that the run in my situation would not count. How about if the third baseman tagged the runner coming from second and for some reason they didn't get the the runner forced at second but tagged him instead, would the run count then?
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The officials lament, or the coaches excuses as it were: "I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you"
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:15pm
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I think confusing the issue was the tag for the out. The tag doesn't remove the force out situation. The runners are 'forced' to advance because there are runners behind them. The tags do not remove that requirement.
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Bob P. ----------------------- We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:21pm
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no I wasn't confused by the tag, I know the force is still on. But you don't very often see an inning ending double play, that doesn't end with the batter being out. In my feeble mind I would have also thought that an inning ending double play in the same situation, that went third to second both being force outs, but the run crosses before the last out, would have scored. That is why those of us who know about this site come out to use it
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The officials lament, or the coaches excuses as it were: "I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you"
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 01:02pm
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From the rule book:
4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES. (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases. Since the third out was made in a force out situation, no matter if a tag was made, no run can score.
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 03:00pm
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Here's a different case where the run scores:
Bases loaded, 1 out. F5 fields the ball and tags R2. He then throws wildly to F4 at 2B, pulling him off the bag toward LF. R1 overslides the bag, and F4 tags him off the base for the 3rd out. Since R1 has acquired 2B, the force is off. Now it's a time play: if the run scored before R1 was tagged, it counts.
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Cheers, mb
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Wed Jun 13, 2007, 06:59pm
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Quote:
Just so. ..................
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