Train wrecks happen in baseball...Get over it !

[nickrego]

Varsity Playoff. I have the plate. R1, no outs.

This is a really big game between the two top teams in the league. Defense is down by 4 runs.

Batter hits a high bouncing grounder up the 1st base line. Ball is tracking parallel to the line, about 2 feet in fair territory.

Pitcher runs to field the ball. He jumps up in the air and catches the ball at the top of a high hop. He lands directly in the base path, right in front of the runner, with the ball.

The batter has no time to avoid contact, so he (in my opinion) instinctively crossed his arms in front of his body, and plows into the pitcher, who is attempting to tag him.

During contact, the ball comes loose, and ends up near the Pitcher's Mound. Pitcher goes down on his butt, runner staggers for a few steps, and then makes his way to tag 1st base.

During all this, I indicate a fair ball. My partner, who had moved in toward the play from B, calls the batter Safe.

As you can imagine, we had a major blowout with the defensive manager. I talked with my partner, and we both agreed that the pitcher fielded the ball outside the running path of the batter, so the batter did not interfere with the defense fielding the ball. That the pitcher stepped into the batters running path, at a point that did not give the batter the opportunity to avoid contact, so we did not have Intentional/Malicious Contact on the batter. So the runner was Safe.

We ran through all of this with the Defensive coach, but to no avail. I ended up telling him, that's the way it stands. Lets play ball.

Never heard a word out of the Offensive coach.

Then, I hear from the stands, "Hey Blue, don't you know the batter has to stay out of that running lane or he's out ? Why do you think they paint those lines there ? You are horrible !"

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Then, I hear from the stands, "Hey Blue, don't you know the batter has to stay out of that running lane or he's out ? Why do you think they paint those lines there ? You are horrible !"

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Sometimes the crowd makes me laugh!

Train wrecks are a part of the game!

[David B]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Then, I hear from the stands, "Hey Blue, don't you know the batter has to stay out of that running lane or he's out ? Why do you think they paint those lines there ? You are horrible !"

Must have been an ex-coach in the stands
When will people ever learn?

thanks
David

[aceholleran]

Well done, methinks.

I had a verrry similar one last year, which I also had as a trainwreck between 2B and 3B, but somehow, F6 managed to tag R2 out. However, F6, an alert lad, chucked it homeward to retire R3, who showed poor baserunning skills (play began with R2 and R3 only).

Off. coach wanted "interference" on F6, a dead ball, and no one called out.

Go figger.

Ace in CT

[Rich Ives]

He jumps up in the air and catches the ball at the top of a high hop. He lands directly in the base path, right in front of the runner, with the ball.

. . we both agreed that the pitcher fielded the ball outside the running path of the batter, so the batter did not interfere with the defense fielding the ball.


What's the pitcher supposed to do - stop in mid air and let the runner go by?

I'd be out there screaming too.

The offensive coach was in his dugout laughing his butt off.

[GarthB]

MLBUM 6.1: Note that under the Official Baseball Rules, a fielder is protected while in the act of fielding a batted ball. In addition, a fielder is also protected while in the act of making a play after having fielded a batted ball. If, after a player has fielded a batted ball but before he is able to throw the ball, a runner hinders or impedes such fielder, the runner shall be called out for interference."

[johnnyg08]

I don't think that rule applies to an immediate tag play on the runner in going to 1B...at least that would be my interpretation

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by nickrego

The batter has no time to avoid contact, so he (in my opinion) instinctively crossed his arms in front of his body, and plows into the pitcher, who is attempting to tag him.

I realize train wrecks happen a lot and this may only be in the way YOU worded this however, the runner would have had to know, that he was going to run into the pitcher, if he reacted by bringing his arms up.

The arms do not get raised instinctively, unless the brain instructs them to.

So then you have to ask, was the player really protecting hisself or plowing into the pitcher. Its a fine line and I probably would have had to been there however, from your description I would have argued the call also, because the player did interfer with the pitchers ability to make a play.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I don't think that rule applies to an immediate tag play on the runner in going to 1B...at least that would be my interpretation

Interesting. "If, after a player has fielded a batted ball but before he is able to throw the ball, " doesn't apply to plays at first base....

hmmmmmmm.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

He jumps up in the air and catches the ball at the top of a high hop. He lands directly in the base path, right in front of the runner, with the ball.

. . we both agreed that the pitcher fielded the ball outside the running path of the batter, so the batter did not interfere with the defense fielding the ball.


What's the pitcher supposed to do - stop in mid air and let the runner go by?

And what's the runner supposed to do when a fielder steps and/or lands directly in front of him? Immediately come to halt?

[bob jenkins]

My take --

IF BR really couldn't avoid, the F1 was likely still in the act of fielding. (Supported by the "leaps and comes down in BR's path" statements). Interference on BR.

If F1 fielded the ball, then moved into the path (supported by other statements), then BR has to anticipate the tag and legally attempt to avoid (or give-up, etc). BR out (and since the ball got away, interference).

Either way, I have BR out and R1 returning, at least as I envision the play(s).

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Mike L

And what's the runner supposed to do when a fielder steps and/or lands directly in front of him? Immediately come to halt?

Sorry, the burden is all on the runner here, until the 'act of fielding the ball' + Garth's MLBUM addendum has been completed.

[PeteBooth]

Batter hits a high bouncing grounder up the 1st base line. Ball is tracking parallel to the line, about 2 feet in fair territory.

Pitcher runs to field the ball. He jumps up in the air and catches the ball at the top of a high hop. He lands directly in the base path, right in front of the runner, with the ball.

The batter has no time to avoid contact, so he (in my opinion) instinctively crossed his arms in front of his body, and plows into the pitcher, who is attempting to tag him.

I talked with my partner, and we both agreed that the pitcher fielded the ball outside the running path of the batter, so the batter did not interfere with the defense fielding the ball. That the pitcher stepped into the batters running path, at a point that did not give the batter the opportunity to avoid contact, so we did not have Intentional/Malicious Contact on the batter. So the runner was Safe.

As with most of these type plays we would have to be there, but IMO "train wrecks" at first base are normally caused by a bad throw from say F6 which takes F3 into the path of the on coming runner and they both collide. Unless one of the parties did something "extra" that is ruled a 'train wreck"

Your play is different. My question to you would be this?

Was F1 the protected fielder?

I would say from your OP that F1 was the protected fielder and in that case I have

1. TIME
2. That's interference
3. The batter turned runner out

In addition if the fielder meaning F1 has the ball and was applying a tag attempt and the batter tunrned runner "plowed" into him, then even if you didn't rule Interference, I would have

1. TIME
2. Malicious Contact
3. The BR out

In HS, FED does not want runners "plowing into one another'. In NCAA the terminology would be "was the collision avoidable"

If as you say you felt that the BR's intention was not to injure you would not necessarily have to eject. It's no different, then F2 standing at the plate waiting to apply a tag and R3 comes barreling or plowing into F2 and the ball dislodges. You would call an out on that play.

Bottom line: As soon as we judge which fielder is protected on a batted ball, the protection remains in tact unless the fielder boots the ball (more than a step and reach away) or the fielder releases the ball.

Sounds like Interference would have been the correct call.

Pete Booth

[charliej47]

With the ball bouncing along the line and the runner running, the runner has to be able to see that the ball will be played by somebody! As soon as he brought his arms up, he telegraphed his intent. If he had time to do that, he had time to avoid.

I got at least one out and an eject!

[SanDiegoSteve]

The running lane is not there to give the runner special privileges while running in it. It is there as a demarcation of where he is supposed to be running in the event of his possible interference with the fielding of a thrown ball at first base. The fact that the pitcher came down with the ball in his running lane is irrelevant. The runner still has to try to avoid the tag, not run the pitcher down.

My question is, how does the runner not anticipate a collision? Isn't he watching where he's running, or is he running with his head down with blinders on? Instead of crossing his arms to protect himself (uh-huh), he would have been better served by altering his path to avoid a tag.