Two questions from a coach please...

[MarionTiger]

The bucket thing is obvious to me, but I cannot find a rule on it.

On the pitcher replacement, I certainly could have phrased it better. I think I have the answer I was looking for now, thanks. Per MLB/SS rules, there is no limit on how many times I can visit the mound without removing the pitcher, per game. Per pitcher per inning, sure, but there is no limit on how many times per game...

Also, we continuously run into instances where the line-up provided to us has either the wrong name, or number. When I appeal to the home umpire that the number is wrong, I almost always get, "well, the name is right though, so it is okay." Well, not every team has names on the jerseys. It amazes me how much we run into this, and further amazes me how it doesn't matter. It doesn't make me mad because this is just 11yo travel ball, but at some point, it will matter I hope. Otherwise, why do we need a line up at all?

thanks again...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MarionTiger

Also, we continuously run into instances where the line-up provided to us has either the wrong name, or number. When I appeal to the home umpire that the number is wrong, I almost always get, "well, the name is right though, so it is okay." Well, not every team has names on the jerseys. It amazes me how much we run into this, and further amazes me how it doesn't matter.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here, but this is the rule -- it's the name that matters, not the number.

[MarionTiger]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm not quite sure what your point is here, but this is the rule -- it's the name that matters, not the number.

Okay, thanks. So without names on the jerseys, how is this verified? I've been in the other situation as well, where the number was right, but the name on the line up card did not match the name on the jersey, and was told the number was what mattered. Is it so difficult to have ALL of the information correct? I must admit, I have not looked very hard for a written rule on this, but will do so. Seems a given the accuracy of this would be mandatory.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by MarionTiger

Okay, thanks. So without names on the jerseys, how is this verified?

I suggest a 'retina scan'. But seriously, does your league have an issue with 11 year old kids running around under assumed names? Call the kid's name loudly, and see who turns around....

I've been in the other situation as well, where the number was right, but the name on the line up card did not match the name on the jersey, and was told the number was what mattered.

That's incorrect, as was pointed out earlier.

Is it so difficult to have ALL of the information correct? I must admit, I have not looked very hard for a written rule on this, but will do so. Seems a given the accuracy of this would be mandatory.

Well, you sometimes have kids who show up without a jersey and borrow one, etc. But that's an issue for your league and your coaches. The umpire should check over the lineup at the plate meeting for duplicate numbers, names, etc. But if the numbers and names don't conflict on the lineup but there's still an error, that's all he can do at that time. He ain't going to the dugout to check IDs.

[archangel]

Re; the coach on the bucket...depending on the rule set, if the runner was standing on 3rd(not trying to advance) when the ball hit the bucket, and runner then didnt try to advance- I'd have nothing........I'd give the runner home if there was any chance that said runner was trying to advance, or in a position to(off bag between 3rd and home/watching the throw)- no advantage given to defense by me sending the runner back to 3rd.....

[Jerry]

Archangel:
There are a couple of rules and guidance documents, at least in OBR and possibly in FED as well. "If a ball strikes a piece of equipment that is on LBT (usually the lip or top step of a dugout), and such ball would have entered DBT absent the contact with such equipment, then the ball is considered to have entered DBT." (OBR)

"If equipment left lying on LBT alters a play in favor of the offending team, the umpires are authorized to nullify the advantage by awarding bases, declaring outs, returning runners, etc." (FED)

Jerry

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Jerry

Archangel:
There are a couple of rules and guidance documents, at least in OBR and possibly in FED as well. "If a ball strikes a piece of equipment that is on LBT (usually the lip or top step of a dugout), and such ball would have entered DBT absent the contact with such equipment, then the ball is considered to have entered DBT." (OBR)

Jerry

Jerry, where did you find this OBR ruling?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by archangel

Re; the coach on the bucket...depending on the rule set, if the runner was standing on 3rd(not trying to advance) when the ball hit the bucket, and runner then didnt try to advance- I'd have nothing........I'd give the runner home if there was any chance that said runner was trying to advance, or in a position to(off bag between 3rd and home/watching the throw)- no advantage given to defense by me sending the runner back to 3rd.....

Or if the ball striking the bucket prevented it from going out of play ... I'd give the base.

[MarionTiger]

Originally Posted by archangel

Re; the coach on the bucket...depending on the rule set, if the runner was standing on 3rd(not trying to advance) when the ball hit the bucket, and runner then didnt try to advance- I'd have nothing........I'd give the runner home if there was any chance that said runner was trying to advance, or in a position to(off bag between 3rd and home/watching the throw)- no advantage given to defense by me sending the runner back to 3rd.....

Not seeing where the ball would have gone to, how would you know if the runner could advance. As the third base coach in this situation, I can tell you that depending on the riccochet off the fence, we may have tried it.

After this game, the umpire advised me that he should have given the runner the base. But it did not matter ultimately.

[DG]

Someone point me to a rule that mentions the bucket please?

[UmpJM]

DG,

Under OBR, the following works for me:

3.14
Members of the offensive team shall carry all gloves and other equipment off the field and to the dugout while their team is at bat. No equipment shall be left lying on the field, either in fair or foul territory.

Under FED, I think 1-3-7 does the trick:

...Loose equipment, such as gloves, bats, helmets or catcher's gear, of either team may not be on or near the field.
Penalty: If loose equipment interferes with play, the umpire may call an out(s), award bases or return runners, based on his judgment and the circumstances concerning the play.

Edited to add, in response to bossman's query:

From the JEA discsussion of 3.14:

Customs and Usage: Umpires should monitor the area in front of the dugouts and insure that gloves and
equipment are not left lying on the playing field. Equipment lying on the "lip" of the dugout is legal but a thrown ball
that strikes it is considered "in the dugout".

JM

[MarionTiger]

Originally Posted by LMan

I suggest a 'retina scan'. But seriously, does your league have an issue with 11 year old kids running around under assumed names? Call the kid's name loudly, and see who turns around....


Well, you sometimes have kids who show up without a jersey and borrow one, etc. But that's an issue for your league and your coaches. The umpire should check over the lineup at the plate meeting for duplicate numbers, names, etc. But if the numbers and names don't conflict on the lineup but there's still an error, that's all he can do at that time. He ain't going to the dugout to check IDs.

So why have numbers at all?

Seriously, I said I wasn't mad about it.

Originally Posted by MarionTiger

Okay, thanks. So without names on the jerseys, how is this verified? I've been in the other situation as well, where the number was right, but the name on the line up card did not match the name on the jersey, and was told the number was what mattered. Is it so difficult to have ALL of the information correct? I must admit, I have not looked very hard for a written rule on this, but will do so. Seems a given the accuracy of this would be mandatory.

Case book 1-1-3 Situation, page 4

1.1.3 SITUATION: F4, Brown, listed in the batting order as wearing uniform No. 4, is wearing No. 21. After reaching base in the third inning, defensive coach appeals to the umpire that Brown is batting out of order. RULING: While Brown is in technical violation of the rule that requires that player's name, shirt number and position be on the lineup card, there is no penalty, since the batting-out-of-order rule requires only that the name be in the proper order. If the number was correct but the player batting was not Brown, the batting-out-of-order penalty would be imposed. Listing of both numbers and positions provides easier recordkeeping for scorekeepers and umpires.