Archangel:
There are a couple of rules and guidance documents, at least in OBR and possibly in FED as well. "If a ball strikes a piece of equipment that is on LBT (usually the lip or top step of a dugout), and such ball would have entered DBT absent the contact with such equipment, then the ball is considered to have entered DBT." (OBR)

"If equipment left lying on LBT alters a play in favor of the offending team, the umpires are authorized to nullify the advantage by awarding bases, declaring outs, returning runners, etc." (FED)

Jerry

Or if the ball striking the bucket prevented it from going out of play ... I'd give the base.

I know you wern't trying to make me feel like an idiot, I did that on my own :p . We'll leave the posts, it will be a reminder that I should read the entire post before commenting.

Steve and Sohl... feel like an idiot, ahhhhh GUILTY... your right sohl... read it all, I briefly read 9-4a, saw the three free trips, posted it, then said to self...that can't be right, that's why I went back and added the second post. I knew better, read the three visits....thought..hmmm....posted...said to self, that can't be right...read on... and oops....:o

Actually, I was corrected. For FED, it is (3) free trips and removal on 4th and subsequent trips. Is NCAA different?

Case book 1-1-3 Situation, page 4

1.1.3 SITUATION: F4, Brown, listed in the batting order as wearing uniform No. 4, is wearing No. 21. After reaching base in the third inning, defensive coach appeals to the umpire that Brown is batting out of order. RULING: While Brown is in technical violation of the rule that requires that player's name, shirt number and position be on the lineup card, there is no penalty, since the batting-out-of-order rule requires only that the name be in the proper order. If the number was correct but the player batting was not Brown, the batting-out-of-order penalty would be imposed. Listing of both numbers and positions provides easier recordkeeping for scorekeepers and umpires.

Slightly. In FED, the team can use the three trips anytime (in regulation). In NCAA, a second trip to the same pitcher int he same inning causes the removal, and the second trip can't occur with the same batter.

In extra innings, FED gets one trip per inning (not one trip per pitcher per inning) and unused trips from regulation do not carry over. In NCAA, teh team gets one extra trip if the game goes to extra innings, and unused trips do carry over.

So why have numbers at all?

Seriously, I said I wasn't mad about it.

Not seeing where the ball would have gone to, how would you know if the runner could advance. As the third base coach in this situation, I can tell you that depending on the riccochet off the fence, we may have tried it.

After this game, the umpire advised me that he should have given the runner the base. But it did not matter ultimately.

Someone point me to a rule that mentions the bucket please?

Jerry, where did you find this OBR ruling?

DG,

Under OBR, the following works for me:

Under FED, I think 1-3-7 does the trick:

Edited to add, in response to bossman's query:

From the JEA discsussion of 3.14:

JM

JM

3.14 carrys no penalty.

1-3-7 provides for umpire to use judgement.

JEA comment on 3.14 allows me to rule that a thrown ball was prevented from entering the dugout by a glove on the lip of the dugout so I should rule it would have entered the dugout and thus DBT and award bases accordingly.

Now let's say the runner rounded 3B, did not appear to have any intention
of going home on the overthrow, the ball bounces off the bucket. Unless hitting the bucket prevented the ball from entering DBT, I have nothing. I don't see an "automatic" on this in OBR or FED.

Of course OBR is not going to cover coaches sitting on buckets outside the dugout because it ain't happening, and shouldn't happen in FED, so the rules can't completely cover stuff that ain't supposed to be happening.

DG,

I believe we are on the same page on this question. If I'm the umpire, all of the benefit of the doubt is going in favor of the team whose coach wasn't sitting on a bucket outside the dugout.

JM

All we have to do as umpires is award the appropriate team and it will start to curtail the practice real quick, this is if they refuse to comply to your request to move into the dugout of course.