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[heavyd8266]

What I Dont Like Is Calling Games With Fellow Official When The First Thing That Comes Out Of There Mouth Is Who Am I Going To Throw Out Of The Game First. Yes There Are Time When It Is Nesseary But Only When The Time Has Come For You To Do That!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

Well said. When he joined the association, he made an agreement. The code of ethics for baseball umpires (2007 NFHS Umpires Manual, pp. 6-7) also has a few things to say about this situation:

1. Honor all contracts regardless of possible inconvenience or financial loss.
7. Give your complete cooperation to the schools you serve and to the state association which you represent.
13. Keep in mind that the game is more important than the wishes of any individual player or the ambitions of any individual umpire.

Here is my response to what you just posted.

#1--He honored the contract and showed up. He was assigned a varsity game, not a JV game.

#7--Cooperation with a school does not mean do anything they want. If the school said we want to pay you $20 and the contract says $60, would that be acceptable too? Last time I checked the school does not have the right to take advantage because they make a request.

#13--One again the umpire was scheduled to work a varsity game. His obligation is to that game, not any other game that might be added or requested to do by the official. I guess if the school said we were moving the game a couple of hours earlier, the officials are supposed to just throw out their personal interests because the game was moved.

I think you really you have little understanding of the code of ethics. Officials are not at the beck and call of the schools to do what ever they like. They have the right to make requests, but we have the right to refuse those requests. There is a reason there are contracts to not only protect the schools but to protect the officials as well.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by heavyd8266

What I Dont Like Is Calling Games With Fellow Official When The First Thing That Comes Out Of There Mouth Is Who Am I Going To Throw Out Of The Game First. Yes There Are Time When It Is Nesseary But Only When The Time Has Come For You To Do That!

Please do not type like that. Not only is it very irritating, but actually lowers the readability and legibility of the text.

[tribefan1952]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is my response to what you just posted.

#1--He honored the contract and showed up. He was assigned a varsity game, not a JV game.

#7--Cooperation with a school does not mean do anything they want. If the school said we want to pay you $20 and the contract says $60, would that be acceptable too? Last time I checked the school does not have the right to take advantage because they make a request.

#13--One again the umpire was scheduled to work a varsity game. His obligation is to that game, not any other game that might be added or requested to do by the official. I guess if the school said we were moving the game a couple of hours earlier, the officials are supposed to just throw out their personal interests because the game was moved.

I think you really you have little understanding of the code of ethics. Officials are not at the beck and call of the schools to do what ever they like. They have the right to make requests, but we have the right to refuse those requests. There is a reason there are contracts to not only protect the schools but to protect the officials as well.

Peace

Hmm... You are absolutely right, with one small exception. When he joined the association, he knew their policy. If he didn't want to work under those conditions, he should not have joined that association. I'm not saying the policy is good or bad... personally I don't like it. But he knew that in this particular association, there's a reasonable likelihood that he would be asked to move to a JV game. The question isn't, "Did he have the right to say no?" Of course he did. This is America! The question was whether it was ethical to say no. The answer to that question is debatable.

Moving the game time or changing the pay rate are completely different scenarios.

[PeteBooth]

#13--One again the umpire was scheduled to work a varsity game. His obligation is to that game, not any other game that might be added or requested to do by the official. I guess if the school said we were moving the game a couple of hours earlier, the officials are supposed to just throw out their personal interests because the game was moved.

From the original thread

[QUOTE]

Two innings into the game, the Home Team Coach calls for time, and informs me the JV umpire has not shown up yet. For this league, we are supposed to split, with the Base Umpire suiting up and working the JV game.[/QUOTE]

When the official signed up to umpire for THIS league and there are no Umpires who showed up for the JV game, then the BU according to the Protocol established is suposed to do the JV game.

IMO it's cut and dry. The only comment I would have that would not be fair is if the offficial was paid the JV rate. That I disagree with, but as long as this official was paid the Varsity Fee and probably 1/2 extra for working solo I do not see a problem. It's not like he had to travel to do the JV game.

This association also has cause to suspend this official for not abiding by the association requirements as Nick indicated in the original thread.

If this official STRICTLY wants to umpire Varsity games and is unwilling to accept the protocol that when no umpires show-up for a JV game the BU is required to suit up and do the JV game, then he should either join a different association or make this perfectly CLEAR to the assignor.

If this official did that, my guess is that his assignments in the future would vastly decrease.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

Hmm... You are absolutely right, with one small exception. When he joined the association, he knew their policy. If he didn't want to work under those conditions, he should not have joined that association. I'm not saying the policy is good or bad... personally I don't like it. But he knew that in this particular association, there's a reasonable likelihood that he would be asked to move to a JV game. The question isn't, "Did he have the right to say no?" Of course he did. This is America! The question was whether it was ethical to say no. The answer to that question is debatable.

Moving the game time or changing the pay rate are completely different scenarios.

I am glad you know what he knew or not. I for one do not want to debate what he knew. I am simply saying that your reference to the code of ethics is misplaced and has little to do with this particular situation. These references had nothing to do with the willingness to work one level from another level. Also the code of ethics has little or nothing to do with a specific association policy.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My state has made it very clear that all contracts assigned are with the school. And if the contract you have with the assignor says you are to work a game at a particular time, the school is responsible for what takes place. In other words I would not have to work a game I was not assigned at any level if it was not on the contract.

Your statement does not apply throughout the state. Our organization is the assignor for many northwest suburban conferences. We do not have written contracts with the schools although some have now gone to the voucher system for direct payment. However; what governs us is our organization. If we are missing an umpire at the site, we are supposed to call the assignor for direction as far as splitting up. But we are not obligated to do so. If you want to stay in good graces with the assignor, you do it. Nobody ever has a problem with it.

For those who do work under contracts be careful about the wording to make sure there is language about you being an independent contractor. If not, it could be assumed that you were an employee for tax purposes. At our clinics, there are always questions about the topic. Basically what we've been told is that if any agreement has restrictive language that can dictate your actions, you may wind up being considered an employee. I'm not trying to give legal advice because I'm not an attorney - if you're not sure, ask.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

When the official signed up to umpire for THIS league and there are no Umpires who showed up for the JV game, then the BU according to the Protocol established is suposed to do the JV game.

IMO it's cut and dry. The only comment I would have that would not be fair is if the offficial was paid the JV rate. That I disagree with, but as long as this official was paid the Varsity Fee and probably 1/2 extra for working solo I do not see a problem. It's not like he had to travel to do the JV game.

This association also has cause to suspend this official for not abiding by the association requirements as Nick indicated in the original thread.

If this official STRICTLY wants to umpire Varsity games and is unwilling to accept the protocol that when no umpires show-up for a JV game the BU is required to suit up and do the JV game, then he should either join a different association or make this perfectly CLEAR to the assignor.

If this official did that, my guess is that his assignments in the future would vastly decrease.

Pete Booth

I am so glad that everyone knows what he signed up for and all the policies associated with that organization. I am glad you know that even when from the very beginning of this thread nothing was stated about such policy or why he did not have the right to refuse the JV game. But I did hear a lot of "He was chicken" and "He should not do what the school asked" bull crap. I know when people join the organizations around here I know for a fact they do not know everything about the organization from top to bottom and all the policies involved. If this is such an important policy, I am sure Nick is going to tell us how they spend several meetings with prospective members to go over this very important policy.

Either way you look at it; there is nothing wrong in my book for officials having a preference as to what levels they do. For all we know maybe, just maybe he works a majority college schedule (like a lot of people sometimes do) and his over all focus is on that level. You might not like it, but that is the way the world works. Not everyone is umpiring for all levels with the same passion and expectation as you and others here might want us to. My season basically ends in May/June because I have other things in my life I want to do after that point. I bet the next thing you will tell me is the assignors want me to work games after the HS/college season is over, I do not have the right to refuse those games because an association has me as a member.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Your statement does not apply throughout the state. Our organization is the assignor for many northwest suburban conferences. We do not have written contracts with the schools although some have now gone to the voucher system for direct payment. However; what governs us is our organization. If we are missing an umpire at the site, we are supposed to call the assignor for direction as far as splitting up. But we are not obligated to do so. If you want to stay in good graces with the assignor, you do it. Nobody ever has a problem with it.

For those who do work under contracts be careful about the wording to make sure there is language about you being an independent contractor. If not, it could be assumed that you were an employee for tax purposes. At our clinics, there are always questions about the topic. Basically what we've been told is that if any agreement has restrictive language that can dictate your actions, you may wind up being considered an employee. I'm not trying to give legal advice because I'm not an attorney - if you're not sure, ask.

I am not telling you what your organization says, I am telling you what the IHSA says and what they will do and how they will handle the situation if there is a violation with a contract. Understand that if you are working HS games in Illinois with IHSA Member schools, you are subject to their rules and regulations that may preclude those of a local association. Also remember that most associations are recognized by the IHSA and have to follow IHSA policies or they will not be able to do many things under the IHSA umbrella. This information was stated at a meeting Dave Gannaway had with assignors at the IHSA Official's Convention and he made it very clear what rights the assignors had and did not have as it related to the contracts they make with the schools. Now we also know in reality that may not apply in practice, but if a school wants to hold your feet to the fire or you want to say the contract was violated, it is not the assignors the IHSA will pay attention to in the dispute or fine for that matter.

Peace

[TussAgee11]

I had a similar situation to this - except it was a 15 year old game. The league has two fields, on opposite sides of town. It was playoffs - 4 teams left. The league decided to switch their games around last second, not tell their assignor, and hence we had a field with 2 umpires and a field with no umpires, about 20 mins apart. Via cell phones, the coaches at our field begged one of us to go. He was literally opening up his own wallet, which didn't go over well with me in front of about 100 spectators.

My parnter and I talked, and we figured out that a) neither of us were obligated to go b) didn't want to leave each other stranded (always have 2 umpires around here) and c) both had places to be at night (other game would have started an hour late). We then discussed what we would tell the coaches, he suggested saying that he didn't have his plate gear (which I thought may cause a bit of a stirup), so instead we were truthful with them except for reason c. Of course, the coaches accused us of reason c.

It got so bad that we came back together, and sought out a solution. I went to my car, got my phone, and gave them the assignor's number. We started up our game and the assignor told the coaches, basically, to shove it, it was the leagues fault for not notifying him and he also defended us really strongly for our decision to stay on our field (from what he told me later that night).

Thoughts?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Thoughts?

First of all what you say is ultimately up to you. You have every right to refuse to work a game you were not assigned. You also do not have to explain why you refuse either. All they can do is ask and you have every right to refuse for what ever reason you give them. If you want to say "I have to wash my hair later" that is your business.

I think people forget that this is an extra curricular activity for most of us. We are independent contractors. We do not have to do anything we do not feel comfortable with or we did not original sign up for. I think calling the assignor was the right thing to do in the end. You are not cattle to be herded in any direction they wish.

Peace

[nickrego]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]From the original thread

When the official signed up to umpire for THIS league and there are no Umpires who showed up for the JV game, then the BU according to the Protocol established is suposed to do the JV game.

IMO it's cut and dry. The only comment I would have that would not be fair is if the offficial was paid the JV rate.

Pete Booth

We get paid $58 for a 2 man Varsity Game. I was paid $65 (standard rate) for doing a 1 man JV game.

[mick]

[quote=nickrego]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

From the original thread



We get paid $58 for a 2 man Varsity Game. I was paid $65 (standard rate) for doing a 1 man JV game.

...And does the Varsity ump gets both of the $58.00 checks?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all what you say is ultimately up to you. You have every right to refuse to work a game you were not assigned. You also do not have to explain why you refuse either. All they can do is ask and you have every right to refuse for what ever reason you give them. If you want to say "I have to wash my hair later" that is your business.

I think people forget that this is an extra curricular activity for most of us. We are independent contractors. We do not have to do anything we do not feel comfortable with or we did not original sign up for. I think calling the assignor was the right thing to do in the end. You are not cattle to be herded in any direction they wish.

Peace

I assign umpires for a 44-team league that plays most of its games at 1PM on Sundays. At the pre-season umpire meeting, I made it clear that umpires sign on to work the game at the scheduled starting time and if, for whatever reason, the start of the game is delayed (the usual is that they want to push back to 2PM for weather reasons, mainly cause nobody showed up early to work the field) they are under NO OBLIGATION to stay and work.

Any association that would expect any more from the umpires values the business more than it values the members.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Why make up a lie? You were working the game you were assigned. There is no right way to do anything wrong.

We didn't lie, my partner brought that up as an option and I nipped it in the bud.