On-Deck Hitter

[C'monBlue]

It has become a local custom of the summer leagues here to allow the on-deck hitter to stand on the side of the batter, i.e., he will stand on the third-base side when there is a right-handed batter regardless if it is the side of his own team. While I'm not particularly concerned about one team taunting the other, are there any liability issues that one should consider when allowing a player to stand in the wrong place in live-ball territory? Is this a practice that umpires should stop (for CYA reasons), or am I being an OOO?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by C'monBlue

It has become a local custom of the summer leagues here to allow the on-deck hitter to stand on the side of the batter, i.e., he will stand on the third-base side when there is a right-handed batter regardless if it is the side of his own team. While I'm not particularly concerned about one team taunting the other, are there any liability issues that one should consider when allowing a player to stand in the wrong place in live-ball territory? Is this a practice that umpires should stop (for CYA reasons), or am I being an OOO?

Personally, I think that in games where players shave above the shoulders, on-deck batters should remain on the same side as their dugout.

If there is concern in other leagues, keep them in DBT.

[PeteBooth]

Ever Since the Witchita State incident (see attached link)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...23/ai_55198802

our umpire association has been instructed to pay more attention to where the on deck batters position themselves. It has also become a "point of emphasis" as well.

You said

It has become a local custom of the summer leagues here to allow the on-deck hitter to stand on the side of the batter,

Therefore, IMO your summer association needs to enforce the on-deck batter rule from DAY 1. If others are not going to enforce it, then you will have a problem when you try to enforce it.

As Garth said for shaving age players enforce the rule otherwise you are asking for trouble.

Pete Booth

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Personally, I think that in games where players shave above the shoulders, on-deck batters should remain on the same side as their dugout.

If there is concern in other leagues, keep them in DBT.

Is this a blanket statement regardless of field dimensions?
I've already done a game this year where I've allowed the on deck player to warm up behind the batter. This was a HS sophomore game. I did not suggest it but neither did I not allow it. If the proximity of the dug outs is so close that normal reflexes won't prevent a foul from crushing a skull I prefer to have them switch sides. There's only a couple fields that I work that have this problem so it's not an everyday occurance, and I have never had any issues with touting or any type of unsportsmanlike behavior as a result.

[TwoBits]

It's common for the leagues in this area that use OBR rules to allow the on deck batter to warmup on the side of the batter. However, since this is specifically forbidden in FED rules, leagues using that rule set do not allow it.

[ozzy6900]

The on-deck batter belongs in his own area. That means on the same side as his dugout is on. That's where he belongs no matter what age!

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The on-deck batter belongs in his own area. That means on the same side as his dugout is on. That's where he belongs no matter what age!

If breaking up a double play isn't sacred then why should this be.
Safety is safety, join the 21st century dude.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

If breaking up a double play isn't sacred then why should this be.
Safety is safety, join the 21st century dude.

If we are going to cite safety as a reason to place an on deck batter in a certain place then it needs to be behind the dugout, because they never pay attention no matter where they are. Case in point, how many times have you had to ask the on deck hitter to get a ball fouled back to the backstop, because they did not know it was back there?

If the rule says they are to be confined to their own side - then make sure they do. If distance does not allow a safe ODC, keep them in DBT. No matter what you want to think about it if you allow deviations and someone gets hurt as a result, you have now absorbed some amount of liability. That's why the rules are written the way they are. If you follow them, you are covered - if you don't, you open yourself up wide. If you want to call it CYA, so be it. Just remember, you're also covering the a$$ of the kid who wants to cross the line, but you hold him back.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

If the rule says they are to be confined to their own side - then make sure they do. If distance does not allow a safe ODC, keep them in DBT. No matter what you want to think about it if you allow deviations and someone gets hurt as a result, you have now absorbed some amount of liability. That's why the rules are written the way they are. If you follow them, you are covered - if you don't, you open yourself up wide. If you want to call it CYA, so be it. Just remember, you're also covering the a$$ of the kid who wants to cross the line, but you hold him back.

I agree that it's the rule, I agree about the liability and I agree it's partly a CYA issue. Can't argue with any of that and won't.
Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone else to do it this way, I'm not saying it's the "right way" but it's what I do in those very few occasions that the ODC is too close.
Here's my justification.
1. I'm not forcing the kid into his on deck circle if he's uncomfortable with the proximity.
2. I'm not sending him to DBT because that will add 20-30 minutes to my game.
3. The opposite ODC has so little risk that I'm willing to trade that risk for 20 minutes and eliminating the obviously dangerous proper ODC.

I don't think a logical argument can be made that in cases of close proximity ODCs the one behind the batter isn't much safer and Fed if nothing else is all about safety

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

1. I'm not forcing the kid into his on deck circle if he's uncomfortable with the proximity.

1. He can stay in the dugout if he doesn't want to use the circle. No one is forcing him to do anything.
2. He can go somewhere in DBT to swing.
3. He can move towards the outfield and stand near the base coach.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

If breaking up a double play isn't sacred then why should this be.
Safety is safety, join the 21st century dude.

Don, why don't you read Pete Booth's post above before you run your mouth! There are reasons for keeping batters on their own side. They are not in the rule book because is it tradition. Going to the opposite side is bad taste and basically thumbing your nose at the opposition.

I also don't know what your problem with the DP is. There are legal ways to "break up" the DP that do not involve taking out the pivot man. And if you have to question those, you really need to switch to something safer - like checkers!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LDUB

1. He can stay in the dugout if he doesn't want to use the circle. No one is forcing him to do anything.
2. He can go somewhere in DBT to swing.
3. He can move towards the outfield and stand near the base coach.

Amen to that. He has plenty of options. Keep him out of the opposition's circle!

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Don, why don't you read Pete Booth's post above before you run your mouth! !

This has no bearing on my posts. I don't allow offensive players to go beyond their ODC prior to the start of the inning. There is obviously no safety issue with their ODC when there is no batter.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

There are reasons for keeping batters on their own side. They are not in the rule book because is it tradition.

Yes it is tradition, and where fields are designed properly it should remain tradition.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Going to the opposite side is bad taste and basically thumbing your nose at the opposition. !

I disagree. I have never had an opposing team ever make a single comment, nor have I ever seen or heard any touting or any other kind of unsportsmanlike behavior as a result.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I also don't know what your problem with the DP is. There are legal ways to "break up" the DP that do not involve taking out the pivot man. And if you have to question those, you really need to switch to something safer - like checkers!

This statement is so rich I don't know where to start.

If anything my post re: the double play intimated I wasn't happy with changing the rules. Therefore suggesting I switch to something safer makes absolutely no sense.
Who said I had a problem with the DP and what does that mean anyway?
It was analogous to the safety issue being discussed and also falls right in line with your "tradition" argument which is exactly my point.
Since Fed and NCAA have have spurned the "traditional", which by definition means long standing and normal way of breaking up the DP for the sake of safety, then IMO nothing is sacred. I wasn't commenting on whether it is a good or bad rule simply that they broke tradition for safeties sake. It's an obvious and non debatable point

And finally, if the pivot man is using proper mechanics, tell me one way a runner can effectively and legally "break up" a DP.

I don't mind a good argument on concepts, rules, traditions etc. but don't insult me with your classless and senseless comments, they're not becoming a good umpire such as you.