Overheard a coach say...

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Garth,

Since you asked so nicely, I believe this is the only one pertinent to MLB play.

From the MLBUM, 6.1 Offensive Interference:



Personally, having witnessed how contact at the plate is treated in MLB games, I have no idea what it means.

JM

Read what you posted carefully!

While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act-such as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using his arms or forearms, etc.-to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the bases. ... Depending on the severity of the infraction, it is possible the player may be ejected for such conduct.

What they don't want is a runner going by a fielder and clocking him for no good reason. Now, if that fielder has the ball and is trying to tag the base runner, he is now fair game for the clocking!

[UmpJM]

rei,

I'm a pretty careful reader, and I'm usually pretty careful about what I post.

The MLBUM interpretation I posted is, on occasion, indisputably incongruous with how the game is actually ruled during MLB games in regard to plays at the plate. (My personal favorite is the Erstad-Estrada collision; in my mind, materially different from the more famous Rose-Fosse collision. Curiously, the A-Rod play was very consistent with this interpretation.)

As Garth points out, there is no OBR rule against it; so, maybe the MLBUM interp is more of a "guideline" than a "rule"1.

JM

(Edited to footnote reference.)

1. Ghostbusters, 1984

[greymule]

When I played American Legion and college baseball in the 1960s, there was no crash rule, no FPSR, no nothing. Runners were expected to break up a double play. Runners coming home tried to dislodge the ball by crashing into the catcher, and the catchers were prepared for it. Know something? Nobody got hurt.

I remember, as a pitcher, covering home on a pitch that got away with a runner on 3B. The catcher retrieved the ball fast enough to throw it to me three steps ahead of the runner. I expected to get hit; the runner did not slow down but went straight into me standing up. I moved a little to the side and tagged him with the ball in the glove and the bare hand squeezing the glove. Crash. Spun around. Out. I didn't get hurt, because I knew what the runner was going to do.

No fight. Nobody yelling about the runner has to slide. The runner went to the dugout and I went back to the mound.

I liked it better in the old days.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by greymule

When I played American Legion and college baseball in the 1960s, there was no crash rule, no FPSR, no nothing. Runners were expected to break up a double play. Runners coming home tried to dislodge the ball by crashing into the catcher, and the catchers were prepared for it. Know something? Nobody got hurt.

I remember, as a pitcher, covering home on a pitch that got away with a runner on 3B. The catcher retrieved the ball fast enough to throw it to me three steps ahead of the runner. I expected to get hit; the runner did not slow down but went straight into me standing up. I moved a little to the side and tagged him with the ball in the glove and the bare hand squeezing the glove. Crash. Spun around. Out. I didn't get hurt, because I knew what the runner was going to do.

No fight. Nobody yelling about the runner has to slide. The runner went to the dugout and I went back to the mound.

I liked it better in the old days.

That's right, 40 years ago, we played and played hard. I don't remember too many arguments or fights either. We didn't seem to be that worried about safety but more with winning the game. Also, if the other team was kicking the crap out of us, we weren't whining either - there were no mercy rules! If you lost, you lost and it was your fault!

I guess that as time went by, the world turned into a bunch of sue happy, "it's not our fault", panty waist sissies!

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by greymule

When I played American Legion and college baseball in the 1960s, there was no crash rule, no FPSR, no nothing. Runners were expected to break up a double play. Runners coming home tried to dislodge the ball by crashing into the catcher, and the catchers were prepared for it. Know something? Nobody got hurt.
.

Previously mentioned..
Rose-Fosse collision

Ended Fosse's career

The old times were fun, but people did get hurt.

Body types in high school baseball range from puny freshman to 18 yr old men. Since HS baseball should be more about participation than body type I'm all in favor of most of Feds safety rules.

[3appleshigh]

It did end Fosse's career, but it was during an event where the collision was unlikely, and Fosse was not ready. The allstar game was a surprising place to find such a collision, the injury was more a result of the lack of preparation, than from the force of the blow itself.

[greymule]

It was also only in 1980 or 1981 that the crash rule was instituted in ASA softball. These safety rules haven't been there forever.

Incidentally, I am certainly not recommending a return to the old days for school ball. High school teams are no longer composed of boys who had played sandlot ball all summer from age 6.

Trenton (NJ) High School used to be a baseball power. One of the guys I umpire with, who attended that school in the early 1960s, told me that when he showed up for baseball tryouts, he was competing with 135 other boys. That meant that some darned good players were cut. Today, they have trouble getting enough to field a team. You can't apply pro rules in that situation.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

It did end Fosse's career, but it was during an event where the collision was unlikely, and Fosse was not ready. The allstar game was a surprising place to find such a collision, the injury was more a result of the lack of preparation, than from the force of the blow itself.

I had 2 concussions that I know of in my football career and in each case I was 'ready' for the collision and had a helmet to boot. I still got hurt.
You can split hairs on the Rose-Fosse collision if you like, but the fact is collisions will eventually cause injury.
I agree that being ready is better than not, but when it comes down to it, collisions are violent and violence can cause damage.

[3appleshigh]

No doubt Collission will cause injuries.

I know guys who got concussions from getting hit in the head with a pitch too, so I guess we should change to lob ball, or just from the side a little lob like in BP.

I know guys who got concussions from taking a ground ball to the jaw, so how do we change that??

I know guys that have severly damaged thier Ankles sliding in to bases, feet first, while others have been KO'd sliding head first. Why don't we just not allow kids to play anything just make thier clothing out of bubble wrap and keep them in round rooms with round tables, with pillows to sit on.

I believe over protection causes injuries way more than allowing people to be prepared for possible outcomes. Telling people {as coaches do} that people have to slide, then a kid comes home running, trys to get out of the way, but clips a player, that will cause more injuries than an expected full out collision. Ask boxers, its the punch not seen that does the most damage, not just THE PUNCH.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

I know guys who got concussions from getting hit in the head with a pitch too

I believe over protection causes injuries way more than allowing people to be prepared for possible outcomes.

Maybe the batting helmet should no longer be allowed then. I guess if batters didn't wear helmets they would try harder to avoid getting hit in the head by the pitch, thus preventing injuries.

I can't believe that you are arguing that banning dangerous acts causes more injuries. How about blocking below the waist in football? Would there be less knee injuries if blocks below the waist were allowed?