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-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   Two-ump question - check swing (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/32646-two-ump-question-check-swing.html)

GarthB Mon Mar 12, 2007 07:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
So basically they are more focused on whether it's a ball or strike?

By rule, if the plate umpire has not called the pitch a ball, it cannot be appealed. Thus the PU has made a decision. I don't understand your confusion.

GarthB Mon Mar 12, 2007 08:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
Speaking of the "weak" partner theory, I went to my partner to see if he knew what was and wasn't. The batter in my book had a swing, but when I checked he just gave me a big head shake as in a non verbal, "No".

If you felt the batter swung at the pitch, why did you go to your partner? Just call the strike.

justanotherblue Mon Mar 12, 2007 08:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG
Like I said in pre-game, I'm automatic, so don't go to sleep in A with a LH batter. If you can't tell then fine, say "no he didn't go". If you can tell he did then I want the strike back.

Ahhhh .......never mind:rolleyes:

LMan Tue Mar 13, 2007 09:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
So basically they are more focused on whether it's a ball or strike?

You cannot appeal a strike.

ctblu40 Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
Speaking of the "weak" partner theory, I went to my partner to see if he knew what was and wasn't. The batter in my book had a swing, but when I checked he just gave me a big head shake as in a non verbal, "No".
So you like to "test" your partners during a game? That has got to be one of the most inappropriate ideas I've ever heard. This sort of thing could really get your BU into hot water. IMO, you're throwing him under the bus! Why can't we retain young umpires? Hmmm? Let's think

You get your calls and I'll get mine, if I need help on the checked swing, I really do need help.

canadaump6 Tue Mar 13, 2007 02:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
By rule, if the plate umpire has not called the pitch a ball, it cannot be appealed. Thus the PU has made a decision. I don't understand your confusion.
I'm wondering what the reason is for the plate umpire not being able to make the call on a check swing in the first place. I'd have thought that the plate umpire would have a better view of whether or not the batter checked his swing, just cause he's so much closer.

LMan Tue Mar 13, 2007 02:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
I'm wondering what the reason is for the plate umpire not being able to make the call on a check swing in the first place. I'd have thought that the plate umpire would have a better view of whether or not the batter checked his swing, just cause he's so much closer.

You've overplayed your hand.

ctblu40 Tue Mar 13, 2007 02:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
Just to be brutally honest, I don't care if he called it a strike or not. He simply needs to learn his mechanics and rotations, of which he missed several in the games I worked with him. I tried to explain to him and to help him learn, but it was all for naught. I would tell him something and the next time the same situation came up he would miss it. He even called a balk on a pitcher for taking his signs after he came to his stop in the set position. I'm sure in time he'll find his own way under the bus.

Since you weren't there, don't be so quick to judge. Yeah, it's my fault he can't learn or listen.
It's hard to not be quick to judge when you said you knew the batter offered and called the pitch a ball, then checked with your partner just to see if he would screw the pooch (which it sounds like he did). I'm not saying that you need to be patient with him and keep teaching. If he's as weak an umpire as you describe, he'll find trouble on his own easy enough, why help him find said trouble?

I never said it was your fault he couldn't learn and listen, believe me when I say I've worked with plenty of guys just like him. But it seems to me that you were intentionally setting him up for failure. Aside from reveling in the misfortunes of others, I don't understand how or why you would intentionally miss a call of your own to see if he would get his right. Makes no sense to me.

GarthB Tue Mar 13, 2007 05:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
I'm wondering what the reason is for the plate umpire not being able to make the call on a check swing in the first place. I'd have thought that the plate umpire would have a better view of whether or not the batter checked his swing, just cause he's so much closer.

Holy Maple Leaf! You don't get it.

The PU DID MAKE A CALL. He called the pitch a ball because the pitch was not in the strike zone and he didn't believe the batter "went."

Rich Tue Mar 13, 2007 05:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Holy Maple Leaf! You don't get it.

The PU DID MAKE A CALL. He called the pitch a ball because the pitch was not in the strike zone and he didn't believe the batter "went."
Put your face about a foot from the side of a moving train and read the numbers on the cars.

Now back up 50 feet or so and do the same thing.

Which is easier?

Why would anyone think closer is better?

canadaump6 Tue Mar 13, 2007 07:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Holy Maple Leaf! You don't get it.

The PU DID MAKE A CALL. He called the pitch a ball because the pitch was not in the strike zone and he didn't believe the batter "went."
So the plate umpire in calling the pitch a ball on a check swing, is saying that the batter didn't go around. And his appeal to the base umpire is just that; an attempt to get another opinion on the call, even if he say it perfectly anyways.

GarthB Tue Mar 13, 2007 07:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
So the plate umpire in calling the pitch a ball on a check swing, is saying that the batter didn't go around. And his appeal to the base umpire is just that; an attempt to get another opinion on the call, even if he say it perfectly anyways.
EXACTLY!

OBR requires that he check with his partner if the defensive manager or catcher so requests.

And, remember, if he judges that the batter did "go", then he would call a strike and no appeal by the offense is allowed

BigUmp56 Tue Mar 13, 2007 08:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
You still don't get it. There is nothing about screwing the pooch involved. I stated, I felt that in my book the batter had swung. The call could go either way. I've been asked to go on appeals I didn't think were even close and have gotten the strike call. Whatever he decided was not even relevent to the case in point. Just give me a simple safe or out mechanic. Better he learn when there is someone willing to teach him, than when there is someone out there with that doesn't know or care. Hopefully, he learned from it.

A word wasn't even muttered about the call. Don't read so much into it. There are worse calls out there they can make which will get them into hot water faster than a checked swing.
I wonder just whom it is that doesn't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL

I felt that in my book the batter had swung.

If you had an attempt, why did you call it a ball and then go for help? This isn't about what your partner did or didn't do.


Tim.

ctblu40 Tue Mar 13, 2007 08:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
You still don't get it. There is nothing about screwing the pooch involved. I stated, I felt that in my book the batter had swung. The call could go either way. I've been asked to go on appeals I didn't think were even close and have gotten the strike call. Whatever he decided was not even relevent to the case in point. Just give me a simple safe or out mechanic. Better he learn when there is someone willing to teach him, than when there is someone out there with that doesn't know or care. Hopefully, he learned from it.

A word wasn't even muttered about the call. Don't read so much into it. There are worse calls out there they can make which will get them into hot water faster than a checked swing.
Now I think I get it.... you were trying to point out that he should have used a mechanic... I agree.

Now, I think you've been missing my point. You were the plate umpire, a pitch came in that was outside the strikezone... however, in your opinion, the batter offered at the pitch.
Quote:
I felt that in my book the batter had swung
But you called it a ball just so you could appeal to BU to "teach" him to use a safe or out mechanic when giving you his opinion. Do you really not see anything wrong with that?

Edited to add: I'm not reading into it. You stated twice now that as the plate umpire, you called an "attempt" a ball just so you could go to BU.

UmpJM Tue Mar 13, 2007 09:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
When asked to appeal, I go when the defense asks. If I thought it was a strike attempt is irrelevant. ... I could have just stood up and said, "Strike, on the swing", but wasn't afforded that chance by the defense.
:eek:

And it's your partner who is "weak"?

I'll give you one thing, you certainly have a gift for irony.

JM


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