Gorilla Arm

[bossman72]

PA state rules interpreter said to me when i asked him about the gorrilla arm:

"It's great you're reading your rules like you are- but if you call that you're just asking for trouble. Theres a time when you need the rule book, but then there's times where you need to leave the rulebook in the car."

[tribefan1952]

Originally Posted by bossman72

PA state rules interpreter said to me when i asked him about the gorrilla arm:

"It's great you're reading your rules like you are- but if you call that you're just asking for trouble. Theres a time when you need the rule book, but then there's times where you need to leave the rulebook in the car."

I guess there are times... but not many. We can't be cherry-picking which rules to ignore and which ones to enforce. That will only lead to trouble.

Having said that... I think the new rule that came out this year (NFHS) about base-coaches leaving their boxes is rather silly. It's going to be difficult to watch the coach and the pitch at the same time.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bossman72

PA state rules interpreter said to me when i asked him about the gorrilla arm:

"It's great you're reading your rules like you are- but if you call that you're just asking for trouble. Theres a time when you need the rule book, but then there's times where you need to leave the rulebook in the car."

I sympathize with you as our rules guy says the same thing. I had a big disagreement on this forum last year about calling this. Tee put me wise to the whole FED interpretation so I decided to start calling it. You guessed, coaches screaming and calling the assigner. No backing from the association on this.

[ncump7]

Varsity 4-A game last night with an experienced lefty on the mound. First inning, with R1, he starts the gorilla arm swinging. I balked him immediately. Of course, the coach comes out of the dugout and asked what he was doing wrong. I told him that with the ball in hand, he could put hand behind back or at side. He gave me the "not trying to deceive anyone" argument. He told pitcher to put hand behind back. Third inning, same scenerio. I called it again. After that, no problem the rest of the way. Pitcher told my partner that no one had ever called it on him before. He said he did it because he saw it on tv.

[JJ]

NCAA and Pro now "officially" agree by interp that the "gorilla arm" is legal. There is no intent to deceive. Once we get FED on board things will be better. Any guesses how long THAT will take?

JJ

[DG]

Gorilla arm is in the same catergory as the white around the Rawlings logo.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I sympathize with you as our rules guy says the same thing. I had a big disagreement on this forum last year about calling this. Tee put me wise to the whole FED interpretation so I decided to start calling it. You guessed, coaches screaming and calling the assigner. No backing from the association on this.

I seen the gorrilla arm a few times when i first started a few years back and never felt comfortable calling that a balk in the first place, so lucky thing i was able to talk to my state interpreter at a clinic last year and bring it up on how he wants it enforced.

Oz, what is your philosophy on why this rule should be strictly enforced?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I seen the gorilla arm a few times when i first started a few years back and never felt comfortable calling that a balk in the first place, so lucky thing i was able to talk to my state interpreter at a clinic last year and bring it up on how he wants it enforced.

Oz, what is your philosophy on why this rule should be strictly enforced?

My philosophy is simple - FED says it is a balk so I am a FED umpire and I should be calling the game the same as Tee or Steve on the West Coast. States and rule interpreters should not change the rules!

My opinion - it is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard of. My son used to do the gorilla arm to "get the blood going". It is not a deception at all - but as Tee impressed on me, it is a mechanical flaw that is prohibited (for now) by the FED rulings.

[Old Time Ump]

Mr. PWL, you are correct about the OBR rule; however, it has never been interpreted that the arm or hand need be stationary in those locations.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

My philosophy is simple - FED says it is a balk so I am a FED umpire and I should be calling the game the same as Tee or Steve on the West Coast. States and rule interpreters should not change the rules!

My opinion - it is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard of. My son used to do the gorilla arm to "get the blood going". It is not a deception at all - but as Tee impressed on me, it is a mechanical flaw that is prohibited (for now) by the FED rulings.

See Oz, my philosophy is: i equate the gorrilla arm to holding in football. If holding in football occurs away from the play and had no effect on the play, it's not going to get called.

Likewise for the gorrilla arm- if it had no effect on the play (ie- wasn't trying to deceive the runner), then i don't think it should be called. I think my state guy is thinking along the same lines.

[ncump7]

How can you equate the pitcher to someone holding away from the play in football. Nothing happens until the pitcher releases the ball. All eyes are on him at the beginning of the play. The rules say hand behind back or at side. How can you then say it is o.k. to swing the arm in front of the body. That is a direct and open violation of the rules that you are paid to enforce. You can not pick and choose which rules you will enforce. Do you call a ball fair if it was just a little bit foul?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by ncump7

How can you then say it is o.k. to swing the arm in front of the body. That is a direct and open violation of the rules that you are paid to enforce. You can not pick and choose which rules you will enforce.

For not calling the gorrilla arm balk, i'm not going to get marked down on an evaluation, so i'm choosing not to enforce it because it's a rule that absolutely does not need strict enforcement. I like to let them play more often than not so i'm not going to call a violation which nobody was effected- much like holding away from the play in football.