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-   -   Can "FOUL" be made "FAIR"? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/32028-can-foul-made-fair.html)

mcrowder Tue Feb 20, 2007 02:26pm
This call (especially when made so late that runners had advanced whole bases, as opposed to immediately after the hit) is most definitely protestable. If coach did that, it could be fixed the way TD fixed it.

However, in agreeance with Ozzy - if TD inserted himself directly, without umpires calling him over in order to deal with a protest, TD was flat out wrong.

Then again - idiotic PU didn't know that a ball hitting the bag was a fair ball ... I'm sure he did not know that TD's shouldn't be inserting themselves into games.

Pat - did you tell him he was wrong (both on the call and on the positioning of his partner)?

GarthB Tue Feb 20, 2007 02:45pm
Can foul be made fair?

Sure. Brinkman did it in Seattle on a shot down the third baseline in 2004. The result was that a Seattle R2 was put out and the manager was ejected.

LMan Tue Feb 20, 2007 03:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT THE REF
… let me describe him to you... the pu wore a backwards cap, wore an inside protector – outside and kakis shorts.

The critical issue is........were there wristbands involved?

ctblu40 Tue Feb 20, 2007 03:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

I did not want to get into this but… let me describe him to you... the pu wore a backwards cap, wore an inside protector – outside and kakis shorts.

He told me that he called it foul because it was so. He couldn’t give me an explanation and then proceeded to rant to be about his inadequate partner and why would he be on the 3rd base side of the diamond.(I know this from being his partner for the next game)

So its not what I thought I saw, it was what happened.
Ok... thats where I was confused. Your OP said the Plate Umpire... clearly this game didn't have a plate umpire.

Eastshire Tue Feb 20, 2007 03:36pm
Maybe it was one of those fields where the foul line goes to the middle of the bag. I hate those. I always tell the coaches we're going to play the lines as marked but if it hits the bag it's fair.

lawump Tue Feb 20, 2007 04:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

1) What would you do?
Shoot the Tournament Director.

LMan Tue Feb 20, 2007 04:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawump
Shoot the Tournament Director.
...and if the body falls into DBT, everyone gets one base.

lawump Tue Feb 20, 2007 04:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
...and if the body falls into DBT, everyone gets one base.
Now, I don't care who you are: That's funny.

BigTex Tue Feb 20, 2007 05:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
RE: This 'blanket statement' stuff....give us a break. We can only go with what the OP said....if he said, 'hits shot, ball hits bag' then you gotta assume it went straight to the bag, so its fair. This 'oh, but I can think up 15,000 other situations the OP never mentioned where it wouldn't be xxxxx' is ridiculous.

The OP also didn't tell us that:

I did not want to get into this but… let me describe him to you... the pu wore a backwards cap, wore an inside protector – outside and kakis shorts.

I was just trying to point out that we may not have all the information when we start to throw other umpires under the bus. Now that we have more information, maybe the plate guy should have started out under the bus.

RPatrino Tue Feb 20, 2007 06:20pm
I think someone mentioned this already, per rule if a batted ball hits a base it's fair. In my opinion, thats one 'foul' that can be reversed. The fact that PU didn't allow that is a different topic. The TD, while well intentioned, has no business reversing any call, or placing runners.

In this situation, the BU making a fair/foul call does not apply. Why bring it up at all?

DonInKansas Tue Feb 20, 2007 06:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyinblue24
I don't wanna make anyone mad but how is this right? I always thought that the BU always had the first call on bag, never the PU (that is the BU always has the first call if he saw the play. Just had to clarify that). Oh, & by the way I always thought that the outfield was divided into three parts (as in Plate Work, diagram 4-1B). I state this b/c Uncle George said that it was the BU's call if a ball went pass the bag. True, but you must be more specific where you are talking about that the BU can make the call. The PU has the call anywhere from the left side of rubber all the way to the wall & the right side of the rubber all the way to the wall to make a call (if the ball enters the outfield). The BU has everywhere in between. Hope this is right. If not please don't bite my head off.
Take a minute and go back to your basics, and read the situation!

BU in B or C, PU has ALL fair/foul calls! Period!

Dave Hensley Tue Feb 20, 2007 06:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Can foul be made fair?

Sure. Brinkman did it in Seattle on a shot down the third baseline in 2004. The result was that a Seattle R2 was put out and the manager was ejected.
And Andy Konyar did it on a ball down the left field line in a LLWS game. The result was a single turned into a standup triple, and a whole nation of LL umpires went through all kinds of silly rationalizations to avoid admitting that the Wizard of Williamsport simply screwed the pooch on that one.

SanDiegoSteve Tue Feb 20, 2007 07:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyinblue24
I don't wanna make anyone mad but how is this right? I always thought that the BU always had the first call on bag, never the PU (that is the BU always has the first call if he saw the play. Just had to clarify that). Oh, & by the way I always thought that the outfield was divided into three parts (as in Plate Work, diagram 4-1B). I state this b/c Uncle George said that it was the BU's call if a ball went pass the bag. True, but you must be more specific where you are talking about that the BU can make the call. The PU has the call anywhere from the left side of rubber all the way to the wall & the right side of the rubber all the way to the wall to make a call (if the ball enters the outfield). The BU has everywhere in between. Hope this is right. If not please don't bite my head off.
First of all, be very cautious when using Uncle George as a rules or mechanics reference, because he is often wrong.

Second, where are you getting some of this stuff? The BU has absolutely no fair or foul call when working inside the diamond. Period. He only has fair/foul on balls hit past the bag at 1st base when working in "A" position on the 1st base line, or when he goes out from that position. Where do you get this "left side" and "right side" of the rubber stuff?:confused:

ozzy6900 Tue Feb 20, 2007 07:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyinblue24
I don't wanna make anyone mad but how is this right? I always thought that the BU always had the first call on bag, never the PU (that is the BU always has the first call if he saw the play. Just had to clarify that). Oh, & by the way I always thought that the outfield was divided into three parts (as in Plate Work, diagram 4-1B). I state this b/c Uncle George said that it was the BU's call if a ball went pass the bag. True, but you must be more specific where you are talking about that the BU can make the call. The PU has the call anywhere from the left side of rubber all the way to the wall & the right side of the rubber all the way to the wall to make a call (if the ball enters the outfield). The BU has everywhere in between. Hope this is right. If not please don't bite my head off.
You're kidding, right? You're not on drugs, are you? Are your arm bands on too tight?

DG Tue Feb 20, 2007 08:13pm
PU has issues.

TD has issues.

If there was a protest the PU would have to say "yes I saw it hit the bag, but..." to overule him. If he said "it didn't hit the bag, it hit a rock in foul territory just beyond the bag"...


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