Who's on third?

[Carl Childress]

R1, R2, 0 or 1 out. Fly ball to right, and F9 busts toward the line to make the catch.

Base umpire (BU) must get the retouch of both runners. Right?
Plate umpire (PU) has catch/no catch and fair/foul. Right?

If R1 retouches and tries for second, BU has the play.

If R2 retouches and tries for third....

Who has the play?

I have always taught that the BU splits the difference and prepares for plays at either (or both) bases.

A supervisor for an independent minor league says the PU should take that play at third, even if it's the first play after the catch.

Any thoughts?

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=Carl Childress]R1, R2, 0 or 1 out. Fly ball to right, and F9 busts toward the line to make the catch.

Base umpire (BU) must get the retouch of both runners. Right?
Plate umpire (PU) has catch/no catch and fair/foul. Right?

If R1 retouches and tries for second, BU has the play.

If R2 retouches and tries for third....

Who has the play?

I have always taught that the BU splits the difference and prepares for plays at either (or both) bases.

A supervisor for an independent minor league says the PU should take that play at third, even if it's the first play after the catch.

Any thoughts?

[/QUOTE]

Papa C this type of play comes up every year and more than one occassion. It is mentioned as one of those type plays which "crys out" to have three person crews but we know due to budget constraints, etc. that doesn't happen until the end of the season come playoff time.

On a bill hit to F9, the PU vacates home plate to get the best possible angle which is to the right side of home plate. He has to first make sure of fair/ Foul and then make the catch call which could be difficult espcially if it's one of those soft sinking line drives.

As soon as R2 sees the ball Touch F9's glove he is taking off for third, so I do not know how the PU can get into proper position to make the call at third when he is concentrating on the "other" responsibilities.

Over the years it seems as though the PU in a 2 person system has gotten more and more responsibilities with respect to the bases than before. I do not know about everyone else but when you as PU have to "run around a lot" especially in the heat it takes away from our prime responsibility which is to call Balls / strikes.

As fatigue sets in, my timing caling balls / strikes is effected. We as PU want to get into that "zone" so that we are consistent and call a good game behind the plate. When we do a lot of running, etc. it takes away from that. It sems as though the BU is getting a "free ride" on many of these type situations. It's no wonder now-a-days that many prefer the bases to the plate.

In the example above, the BU is already in "C" and can straddle himself to see both the touches from R1/R2 and also make the call at third. Sometimes I do not understand the thinking that goes into these types of situations.

Pete Booth

[bob jenkins]

I agree with Carl and Chris.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Carl Childress

R1, R2, 0 or 1 out. Fly ball to right, and F9 busts toward the line to make the catch.

Base umpire (BU) must get the retouch of both runners. Right?
Plate umpire (PU) has catch/no catch and fair/foul. Right?

If R1 retouches and tries for second, BU has the play.

If R2 retouches and tries for third....

Who has the play?

I have always taught that the BU splits the difference and prepares for plays at either (or both) bases.

A supervisor for an independent minor league says the PU should take that play at third, even if it's the first play after the catch.

Any thoughts?

If F9 is busting toward the line, then the PU has the Fair/foul call. I, as the BU, know that I have everything except home in this scenario. Also, my partner is calling to me "I'm on the Line!" which tells me, I' am on my own.

For the rookies, that means that I have the tag at 3rd & 2nd and I also have B1 while the PU has the Fair/Foul, Catch/No catch and the plate.

Oh and Carl, Who's on first!

[Tim C]

I agree with Mr. Jenkins.

Regards,

[DonInKansas]

Um, sixthed? Any BU worth his salt will be in position to make that call starting in C.

[Jerry]

Carl,
Did the independant minor league supervisor tell you why they teach that the PU should be taking the runner to 3rd? It doesn't seem to make logical sense at all.
Jerry

[TussAgee11]

If I'm BU, I'm already in C, and am going to move a bit towards the mound/3rd baseline a bit to try to see both base runners as the ball is caught (just enough to get them both in my vision, sort of a V). Yea, I'm giving up a bit on a throw to 1st behind a runner, but hell, there are times in a 4 man system when you give that up, and its so rare and less important that what is the likely play (2nd or 3rd) and the most important play (2nd and 3rd).

[PFISTO]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If I'm BU, I'm already in C, and am going to move a bit towards the mound/3rd baseline a bit to try to see both base runners as the ball is caught (just enough to get them both in my vision, sort of a V). Yea, I'm giving up a bit on a throw to 1st behind a runner, but hell, there are times in a 4 man system when you give that up, and its so rare and less important that what is the likely play (2nd or 3rd) and the most important play (2nd and 3rd).

I would also agree with TussAgee. I believe that the PU should also yell OUT loud enough to help out BU, as this should be discussed in pre game especially if you are working with someone new. I believe that by yelling OUT it will help out if there is an appeal and the coach makes a statement that BU was not looking at both.

[Tim C]

PFISTO noted:

"I believe that the PU should also yell OUT loud enough to help out BU . . . "

I agree, I always thought "I've got the line!" alerted the BU to his complete responsibility.

One Rule ~ One Interpretation ~ One Mechanic

[bluezebra]

Carl:

Everyone knows that Who's on FIRST, I Don't Know is on THIRD.

Bob

[DonInKansas]

Besides, if the ball's down the first base line, the catch will be in the BU's field of vision as well---Right in the middle of the two runners he's keeping an eye on. The OUT call from PU will help, but everything should be happening right in front of the BU.

[PFISTO]

I agree, I always thought "I've got the line!" alerted the BU to his complete responsibility
Yes that would let BU know where his partner is and where he should be. And now this is a question wouldn't the PU loudly yelling OUT maybe give BU the abilty to focus more on R1 at 2nd and keep R2 in his side vision waiting for the OUT.???

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PFISTO

I agree, I always thought "I've got the line!" alerted the BU to his complete responsibility
Yes that would let BU know where his partner is and where he should be. And now this is a question wouldn't the PU loudly yelling OUT maybe give BU the abilty to focus more on R1 at 2nd and keep R2 in his side vision waiting for the OUT.???

The runner can leave as soon as the ball is touched. It's not a catch until F9 securely holds the ball. U1 should be watching the ball and the runner and not waiting for a verbal from PU.

99% of the time, R1 will not be tagging in this situation.

[lawump]

I agree with Tim C...I was taught in the NAPBL minor leagues that the yelling of "I'm on the line" by the PU was the cue from the PU to the BU that the BU had any play into third.