Rules We Don't Like

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

I will probably get trashed here for mentioning this, but, the Fed rule I dislike the most is the FPSR and contact rules, particlularly players not being able to break up a double play or roll the catcher.

Ditto.....

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Ditto.....

I don't understand why either of you would preferr to see a runner allowed to crash the catcher or make contact on the pivot man at second in a high school game. These are young men playing and should be afforded the protection that the FPSR rule provides.


Tim.

[DG]

I don't understand why any rule set would allow a runner to maliciously contact a catcher.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by DG

I don't understand why any rule set would allow a runner to maliciously contact a catcher.

I suppose I can see it still being allowed at the professional level as a matter of tradition. But for any level lower than that, especially with teenagers still in school, no way.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I suppose I can see it still being allowed at the professional level as a matter of tradition. But for any level lower than that, especially with teenagers still in school, no way.


Tim.

The NCAA seems reasonable, agressive contact to reach the base is allowed, malicious contact with malicous purpose is not. With the salaries paid today I don't understand why ML owners are not oppossed to MC on their expensive catchers.

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I don't understand why either of you would preferr to see a runner allowed to crash the catcher or make contact on the pivot man at second in a high school game. These are young men playing and should be afforded the protection that the FPSR rule provides.


Tim.

Because it's baseball, not golf. And I never said anything about malicious contact, malicious contact has no place anywhere in baseball. I like the college rules for contact much better.

Remember, the title of this topic, Rules you don't like.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

Because it's baseball, not golf. And I never said anything about malicious contact, malicious contact has no place anywhere in baseball. I like the college rules for contact much better.

Remember, the title of this topic, Rules you don't like.

Would you have the FPSR ammended to model NCAA, which appears even more stringent?


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Would you have the FPSR amended to model NCAA, which appears even more stringent?


Tim.

etn_ump stole my thunder. The name of this category is "Rules We Don't Like," not "Let's Argue About Your Choices Of Rules You Don't Like."

Let us just list the rules we don't like, and not give us a ration of crap about it. We did not ask to debate the subject, just to give our opinions.

And I don't think tradition itself is the reason the MLB allows crashing the catcher. So did a lot of leagues that I played catcher in, and I welcomed the baserunner to try to knock the ball out of my hands. It's part of BASEBALL. There were no "slide or avoid" or "no canning the catcher" rules when I was playing ball (which I did until I was 30), and I don't remember any serious injuries directly attributed to collisions. Like etn_ump said, the keystoners and catchers knew how to play the game.

We played football in the street, got all skinned up, and slammed into cars all the time. It was just a tougher world back then I guess, without all the lawsuit-crazy parents we have today.

You can still have rules against Malicious Contact, without having a rule such as the FPSR. Long before this rule came about, there were FED rules in place that protected against Malicious Contact, and everything worked out just fine.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

etn_ump stole my thunder. The name of this category is "Rules We Don't Like," not "Let's Argue About Your Choices Of Rules You Don't Like."

Let us just list the rules we don't like, and not give us a ration of crap about it. We did not ask to debate the subject, just to give our opinions.

And I don't think tradition itself is the reason the MLB allows crashing the catcher. So did a lot of leagues that I played catcher in, and I welcomed the baserunner to try to knock the ball out of my hands. It's part of BASEBALL. There were no "slide or avoid" or "no canning the catcher" rules when I was playing ball (which I did until I was 30), and I don't remember any serious injuries directly attributed to collisions. Like etn_ump said, the keystoners and catchers knew how to play the game.

We played football in the street, got all skinned up, and slammed into cars all the time. It was just a tougher world back then I guess, without all the lawsuit-crazy parents we have today.

You can still have rules against Malicious Contact, without having a rule such as the FPSR. Long before this rule came about, there were FED rules in place that protected against Malicious Contact, and everything worked out just fine.

Steve:


I wasn't giving you any crap about your opinions. This board would be pretty bland if we didn't discuss our positions on situations where we may or may not agree with each other. Perhaps it's because right now I have two sons playing under NFHS rules, one in the ICCL and one in high school that causes me to support limited contact rules such as the FPSR. Neither of my sons are wimps, but I don't want to have to see one of them have their knee taken out on a hard slide. I can't afford to be macho when it comes to my childrens safety.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

BTW-I thought you were "Scooper" Steve at first base?

Indeed I was during my early youth, all the way through Thoroughbred (what is the equivalent of today's Palomino 17-18). After my stint in the Army, I played in adult leagues, including baseball, fast-pitch softball, and 3-pitch leagues, as well as good ol' fashioned pick-up "beer ball" games on Saturdays and Sundays year round. In these leagues, I loved to play catcher, and my teammates loved having me there because I loved to block the plate.

The only thing that stopped me from my insatiable appetite to play ball was my finding umpiring (as well as reffing bball and football), and involving myself in that 6 to 7 days a week instead. I lost the desire to continue to be a "rat" once I discovered the joy of arbitration.

And yes, I could pick it at 1st base with the best of them.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

The question is.... who gets ejected in this? Just the guys that started the fight or what?

In FED anyone that leaves their posisiton to go fight is ejected, so since both benches cleared, is everyone ejected and the game thrown out?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

It is unlikely that the majority of umpires on this board will ever experience anything like this. In this situation I would do just what these guys did, stand back and watch the action while writing down numbers of the players starting the fight.

[greymule]

Good videos, but the whole thing is quite depressing to watch. It smacks so much of the drunken over-the-hill hotheads in slow-pitch softball—the kind of crap that impels townships to discontinue leagues.

The tough guy has seen the big leaguers shove cameramen, so he figures that he has to do it, too.

I certainly hope there are consequences.

I've traveled to Schaumburg many times. Never knew the place to have a minor league team, but maybe they do. If Schaumburg is playing Kansas City, it's hard to believe it's some semi-pro league. On one of my trips, I stopped in St. Charles, Illinois, not too far from Schaumburg, to see their minor league team. One dollar to park.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by SAump

Theads by Pete Booth (#10), greymule (#11), Justme (#13) and D-man (#19) all discuss the problems umpires have controlling bad behavior in the modern game.

There is an interesting collection of videos on Youtube covering a serious fight between the Flyers and Tbones. I strongly suggest that YOU watch the short videos documenting the event.

Video 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tiYuY8zAx6c
Video 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n7P9vUQz...elated&search=
Vidoe 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jdbdeYT1V...elated&search=

Video 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3R-k3xWEF...elated&search=

Not much anyone could do before all hell broke loose. I applaud the Tbone manager for trying to take control of his players and returning them back to the dugout after things began to settle down.

The video that hit home was when the Flyers HC blamed the ump immediately AFTER the fight had taken place and the UMPIRE'S strong reaction against the charge. I also note that the Flyers HC didn't do **** himself before that fiasco took place. I strongly encourage umpires to use it as a "training" topic with young umpires.

It would be interesting to know what penalties were handed out.

What is the realistic expectation of the UIC here? Remember, this is a professional baseball game being played by grown men.

The plate ump did exactly what he was supposed to do, issue a warning. It's hard to tell how much bad blood there was between these two teams before the game began. Is that UIC's fault as well? No.

If this were a FED game, many of us would take care of it by giving an early gate (I think), but this level of baseball is much different. These men (and I use that term loosely) are supposed to know and abide by the unwritten rules concerning "showing up" their opponent and playing the game "the right way."

Sometimes things get out of control in competitive sports. At the professional level, it's the job of the club and league offices to control these jerks. The umpires are there to call the game, not teach proper behavior. But at the HS level, many upires are required to teach as well because maybe the coaches don't know any better.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jim Mills

Right you are. The National Club Baseball Association, which consists of university-sponsored extramural club teams playing under NCAA eligibility rules and modified NCAA playing rules, has a malicious contact rule that is defined (contact with the head or neck is malicious by rule; no umpire judgment beyond whether such contact occurred is required), and they have no FPSR. Au contraire, they specifically allow for aggressive contact to break up a potential double play, or a tag play at the plate. They also do not prohibit tobacco.

Among the several which I am paid to work, it is by far the most pleasurable rules set to administer.

Sounds like my kind of league!