What would you do?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'd be interested to know how they work out whose opinion is most authoritative in other situations where Roder and Evans differ, Tim. For example, if I'm not mistaken, Roder claims a batter-runner cannot overrun first on a base on balls award without putting himself in jeapordy. Evans on the other hand says that he may overrun first on the award without being put in jeapordy unless he makes an attempt at second.


Tim.

I'm not familiar with Roder's position(s) on this question, but Evans in the JEA rules the opposite of what youv'e stated - he says a batter runner may NOT overrun 1B on a base on balls without liability. The MLB Umpire Manual, circa 2001, incorporated the contrary interpretation, that the batter runner may overrun on a base on balls without liability to be put out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I'm not familiar with Roder's position(s) on this question, but Evans in the JEA rules the opposite of what youv'e stated - he says a batter runner may NOT overrun 1B on a base on balls without liability. The MLB Umpire Manual, circa 2001, incorporated the contrary interpretation, that the batter runner may overrun on a base on balls without liability to be put out.

Both the J/R and JEA interpret contrary to the written rule, which states that a batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base. These two sources usually like to put their own spin on the rulebook, and probably feel that this book rule is somehow in error.

The MLBUM (in this case, the 2002 edition) interprets the rule as written:

NOTE: The batter-runner is not prohibited from overrunning first base on a base on balls (i.e., the batter-runner may overrun first base on a base on balls and is not in jeopardy of being put out provided he returns immediately to first base). (See Official Baseball Rules 7.08(c)(EXCEPTION), 7.08(j), and 7.10(c).)

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Both the J/R and JEA interpret contrary to the written rule, which states that a batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base. These two sources usually like to put their own spin on the rulebook, and probably feel that this book rule is somehow in error.

Actually, J/R in the 2004 edition says in One Base Awards:
"...
(2) A base on balls.
....
The ball remains live and any runner who is tagged off base after touching or passing his awarded base is out. However, the batter-runner is allowed to overrun first base, provided he returns immediately to the base."
So J/R in no way disagrees with MLBUM.

And as far as "own spin" goes, I only know of two situations in which J/R deviates from the rules as expiated in the the PBUC manual and the MLBUM. These involve the possibility of catching bounced pitch for a third strike, and interference on a runner being struck by a batted ball. Of course, JEA, J/R, PBUC, and MLBUM all deviate significantly from OBR.

[SanDiegoSteve]

My J/R is so outdated, J. R. Ewing hadn't gotten shot yet at the time of its publication.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

My J/R is so outdated, J. R. Ewing hadn't gotten shot yet at the time of its publication.

The first edition of J/R was printed in 1990. JR was shot in 1980.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

The first edition of J/R was printed in 1990. JR was shot in 1980.

Yes, I realize this. I was joking. It just seems that out of date.

This is what my 1993 version says:

4. A runner (including the B/R) awarded a base due to a base on balls or detached gear (live ball awards) cannot be tagged out unless such runner passes his awarded base.

[Dave Reed]

Steve,
I can't resist pointing out that your quote from the 1993 J/R is entirely true and correct. It is what is meant by being awarded a base without liability to be put out. Perhaps there is some additional verbiage to justify the notion that the converse statement is true, even for B/R?

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Actually, J/R in the 2004 edition says in One Base Awards:
"...
(2) A base on balls.
....
The ball remains live and any runner who is tagged off base after touching or passing his awarded base is out. However, the batter-runner is allowed to overrun first base, provided he returns immediately to the base."
So J/R in no way disagrees with MLBUM.

In the same edition J/R says "a runner (including the batter-runner) awarded a base due to a base on balls or detached gear (live ball awards) cannont be tagged out unless such runner passes his awarded base with intent to advance." This agrees with what is written in the 2002 MLBUM.

Carl covers this in 2006 BRD, item 109.
FED: may not overrun the base. If he does, he is in peril of an out whether he feints or attempts an advance.
NCAA: may overrun first if he returns immediately, and does not make an attempt to go to second.
OBR: Same as NCAA. (7.08j; MLBUM 5.14-Note)

JEA has already been quoted here so it appears to me JEA offers the opposing viewpoint on this.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I'm not familiar with Roder's position(s) on this question, but Evans in the JEA rules the opposite of what youv'e stated - he says a batter runner may NOT overrun 1B on a base on balls without liability. The MLB Umpire Manual, circa 2001, incorporated the contrary interpretation, that the batter runner may overrun on a base on balls without liability to be put out.

Dave:


This is all I find in the JEA on the matter.

Professional Interpretation: Though the batter is awarded first base without liability to be put out, he does incur responsibilities: (1) He must advance to and touch the awarded base or become liable to be declared out...see 4.09(b). (2) He becomes liable to be put out if he attempts to advance after missing the awarded base. (3) He should advance to and touch his awarded base before a substitute is allowed to take his place, unless he is being replaced because of an injury or illness...see Customs and Usage.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Dave:


This is all I find in the JEA on the matter.

Professional Interpretation: Though the batter is awarded first base without liability to be put out, he does incur responsibilities: (1) He must advance to and touch the awarded base or become liable to be declared out...see 4.09(b). (2) He becomes liable to be put out if he attempts to advance after missing the awarded base. (3) He should advance to and touch his awarded base before a substitute is allowed to take his place, unless he is being replaced because of an injury or illness...see Customs and Usage.


Tim.

Tim, this is under 7.08(c), Professional Interpretation, of the JEA:

A batter who is entitled to 1st base because of "four balls" being called may not overrun or overslide 1st base. This is an award which is administered while the ball is alive and in play. He is entitled to 1st base without liability to be put out...6.08(a). His liability to be put out resumes once he touches the base.