What would you do?

[tibear]

I'm sure you meant to say F1, not F2.

Anyway, as soon as an umpire says "Time". Nothing may take place, even if the umpire calls time in error.

So I would disallow the hit, move the runners up a base and continue with the game.

Sure, there will be alot of yelling and argueing. (With good reason.) However, as I indicated before, once an umpire calls time.. That's it.
Time is called. Period.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by tibear

I'm sure you meant to say F1, not F2.

Anyway, as soon as an umpire says "Time". Nothing may take place, even if the umpire calls time in error.

So I would disallow the hit, move the runners up a base and continue with the game.

Sure, there will be alot of yelling and argueing. (With good reason.) However, as I indicated before, once an umpire calls time.. That's it.
Time is called. Period.

Thanks I edited my post accordingly. My question isn't really about the rules. I think we all know that the call of time in this situation is final and cannot be undone. My question was of a more philosophical nature. Do you start to walk away since the batter just hit the apparent game winning homerun and hope the defense doesn't catch on, or do you set it right immediately.


Tim.

[tibear]

When I call time everybody hear's it and if a partner call's time I repeat the call so everyone can hear.

Given that information it would be very difficult to simply walk off the field. Everyone would know that time had been called.

Now, it's not an umpire mistake, but I once had a situation where there were two outs in the last inning and the ball was hit to the shortstop who threw the ball to the first baseman but the first baseman was about six inches off the bag. The runner saw the throw beat him to the bag so he ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag. So I simply stood there, no call to make yet. The fielders ran off the field and the BR took his helmet off and then walks toward the dugout. I wasn't sure what to do. I remember thinking do I call him out for abandoning when he gets to a certain point from first or do I simply let the game end.

I chose the later and simply let everyone go their respectful dugouts with only two official outs. Even my partner didn't catch it until I pointed it out later on the walk to the parking lot.

[Dave Hensley]

While there is some limited precedent for reversing a call of time, the given situation doesn't qualify, because the argument could (and surely would) be made that the pitcher let up upon hearing "time" called, and served up a meatball which is why the batter was able to jack it out.

So, you're stuck with Door # 2, which as you suggest would almost surely result in an ejection or 10. It would be a nightmare of a mistake to make, and depending on the league/level of play, could also be a career ending or career limiting mistake.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by tibear

When I call time everybody hear's it and if a partner call's time I repeat the call so everyone can hear.

Given that information it would be very difficult to simply walk off the field. Everyone would know that time had been called.

Now, it's not an umpire mistake, but I once had a situation where there were two outs in the last inning and the ball was hit to the shortstop who threw the ball to the first baseman but the first baseman was about six inches off the bag. The runner saw the throw beat him to the bag so he ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag. So I simply stood there, no call to make yet. The fielders ran off the field and the BR took his helmet off and then walks toward the dugout. I wasn't sure what to do. I remember thinking do I call him out for abandoning when he gets to a certain point from first or do I simply let the game end.

I chose the later and simply let everyone go their respectful dugouts with only two official outs. Even my partner didn't catch it until I pointed it out later on the walk to the parking lot.

The correct call here should have been "SAFE, OFF THE BAG!" Once the BR has passed first base, he has "acquired" it. He is then subject to be out on appeal.

[german ump]

Originally Posted by BigTex

The correct call here should have been "SAFE, OFF THE BAG!" Once the BR has passed first base, he has "acquired" it. He is then subject to be out on appeal.

Once the base runner has touched first base he has "acquired" it or is there a new rule. I'm a high school umpire and we were tought that you actually have to touch the bag. tibear actually said the batter/runner "...ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag". That would not give him possesion of first base. When he abandons the base he is called out.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by german ump

Once the base runner has touched first base he has "acquired" it or is there a new rule. I'm a high school umpire and we were tought that you actually have to touch the bag. tibear actually said the batter/runner "...ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag". That would not give him possesion of first base. When he abandons the base he is called out.

No, when the BR passes 1B he is considered to have 'acquired' the base and the defense is required to appeal the missed base.

BUT

FED still has the 'accidental' appeal in effect for this situation (at first base only):

2006 NFHS Case Book
Page 65
8.2.3 Situation:
B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrives safely but misses first base. F3 catches the ball with his foot off the base and casually steps on first base, though he believes the runner has beaten the throw.

RULING:
B1 is out. Because a force play is being made on the runner and is the result of continuing action, F3 is required to appeal the missed base and does so by stepping on the missed base.

Notice the first sentence says "arrives safely but misses first base" and the last sentence "F3 is required to appeal the missed base"

I believe I'm correct is saying that other rule sets (e.g. OBR/NCAA) do not have the 'accidental' appeal.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by german ump

Once the base runner has touched first base he has "acquired" it or is there a new rule. I'm a high school umpire and we were tought that you actually have to touch the bag. tibear actually said the batter/runner "...ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag". That would not give him possesion of first base. When he abandons the base he is called out.

Suppose the batter-runner is legging out a double. As he rounds first, he fails
to touch the bag, and continues on to second base. Would you do anything
other than wait for an appeal from the defense ? Running "through" the bag
at first, and failing to make contact would not be any different. If there is no
appeal, there is nothing to call, the batter-runner has acquired first base.

[Tim C]

Mr. Hensley wrote:

"Wow......."

Dave I agree. What I should have written was:

"It appears, at first blush, that Mr. Roder has used the extensive research of Jim Evans AND Carl Childress to his advantage in his writings."

Even a liberal Texas Democrat couldn't find fault with that.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Another point, the runner is not abandoning a base if he returns to it. If he gets back to the base before the defense can appeal, then he is safe. It is only abandonment when the runner gets to the dugout or DBT.

In FED you should call a BR out who has passed (acquired) 1B if you judge he is heading for the dugout or his defensive position with no intent to return.

[BigUmp56]

Under OBR this is an interpretation where Evans and Roder appear to disagree. Roder's claim is that you can call a runner out for abandonment as soon as you feel he's progressed a "reasonable distance" toward his dugout or defensive position while indicating no intent to reassert his status as a runner.

J/R

Any runner (including the batter-runner) is out when:

A runner who discontinues his advance or return to a base, progresses a reasonable distance toward his dugout or defensive position, and indicates no intent to reassert his status as a runner, has abandoned his effort to run the bases. The cause of his actions (e.g., ignorance or apathy) is irrelevant.


Evans says this:


Common sense dictates that the only logical reason a player would abandon 1st base after overrunning it would be because he thought he had been declared out by the umpire. The player should not be penalized for an umpire's improper signaling or incorrect mechanic. Therefore, the runner should not be automatically called out if he temporarily leaves the extended basepath. A player who leaves the infield area abandoning the base paths between 1st base and 3rd base may be declared out once he leaves fair territory. If a play is being made on him, however, he is subject to the guidelines established in 7.08(a.1)...he must be advancing toward a base and cannot go more than three feet out of his direct line to avoid a tag. A runner who leaves 3rd base for any reason is not out until he enters a dugout when no play is being made on him. He shall be declared out for abandoning the base paths if a play is being made on him and (1) he is not making a bona fide effort to reach home plate or return to 3rd; or (2) he runs more than three feet out of his direct line to avoid a tag. A batter-runner who inexplicably fails to return directly to 1st base after overrunning it shall not be called out before entering the dugout. If he failed to touch the base, he is subject to an appeal play. He can be retired by the defensive team either tagging him or the missed base and making a proper appeal. In trying to get back to 1st base after missing it, the batter-runner must make a legitimate effort to proceed directly to the base. Any circuitous or evasive running which the umpire determines not to be an immediate attempt to reach 1st base shall be grounds for declaring the batter-runner out.



Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yep, there's always the chance that somebody heard you call "Time," and if you try to BS your way around it, it can come back to bite you in the arse.

I have mistakenly called "Foul," and I know that nobody heard me above all the noise and excitement, but I had to eat the call because I knew what I had done, even if nobody else did.