Calling Time Out

[Chris_Hickman]

Originally Posted by Steve

We (and by "we," I mean the SDCBUA as a group, not you Justme ) were taught that it is neither necessary nor desirable to call Time to clean the dish, except with a runner at 3rd. This association frowns on the unnecessary, frivolous calling of Time, and this is an example of that. Good things can happen when the ball is alive (such as outs), and not many can happen when it is dead.

The same goes for the above example, there is no need to call Time, as long as at least one set of eyes is watching the action on the bases.

When I'm working the bases, and an umpire unnecessarily calls Time, I feel that he has no confidence in my ability to manage the action on the bases while he is briefly involved with the all-important task of removing a bit of dirt from the plate.

Sounds like common sense to me!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

We (and by "we," I mean the SDCBUA as a group, not you Justme ) were taught that it is neither necessary nor desirable to call Time to clean the dish, except with a runner at 3rd. This association frowns on the unnecessary, frivolous calling of Time, and this is an example of that. Good things can happen when the ball is alive (such as outs), and not many can happen when it is dead.

The same goes for the above example, there is no need to call Time, as long as at least one set of eyes is watching the action on the bases.

When I'm working the bases, and an umpire unnecessarily calls Time, I feel that he has no confidence in my ability to manage the action on the bases while he is briefly involved with the all-important task of removing a bit of dirt from the plate.

I believe, with runners on any base, both the Academy and PBUC instruct PU to call time when cleaning the plate. I realize that Proschool and PBUC may not be as prestigious as the SDCBUA, whatever the hell that is, but I doubt umpires will go far wrong by following what is taught at the professional level.

[bobbybanaduck]

you believe incorrectly

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

you believe incorrectly

That's always a possibility, so I will be checking with them tomorrow.

It's also possible that my information is old. I'll be asking about that,too.

Might I inquire how recent your information regarding JEAPU and PBUC is?

[Chris_Hickman]

I believe, with runners on any base, both the Academy and PBUC instruct PU to call time when cleaning the plate. I realize that Proschool and PBUC may not be as prestigious as the SDCBUA, whatever the hell that is, but I doubt umpires will go far wrong by following what is taught at the professional level.

Ya... the schools also teach that with R2, R1 and R2, the base guy is to look over his shoulder during each pitch. Let me tell ya...that doesnt always happen..oh ya, I forget..the base guy has to be in a hands-on-knees position for every pick off play @ 1st!!! Good luck with that.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

Ya... the schools also teach that with R2, R1 and R2, the base guy is to look over his shoulder during each pitch. Let me tell ya...that doesnt always happen..oh ya, I forget..the base guy has to be in a hands-on-knees position for every pick off play @ 1st!!! Good luck with that.

You're becoming cynical in your old age, Chris. I knew I liked you for some reason.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This association frowns on the unnecessary, frivolous calling of Time, and this is an example of that. Good things can happen when the ball is alive (such as outs), and not many can happen when it is dead.

This is certainly not a consistent instruction across baseball organizations. My high school association teaches no such thing. Little League has a published ruling that says time is out when the plate umpire cleans the plate.

I'm just trying to envision a runner "sneaking" a steal of 2B or 3B while the plate umpire is brushing the plate, action was otherwise relaxed, and then just before ejecting the defensive coach your explanation is "yes, I was ***-to-field, but I never called time and my partner was still watching."

You may think it's a "good thing" that you're allowing bases to be run, outs to be recorded - hey do you still call balks while brushing the plate, maybe using your brown eye? - but to me it's a practice that is simply an endorsement of bush league baseball. No thanks.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

This is certainly not a consistent instruction across baseball organizations. My high school association teaches no such thing. Little League has a published ruling that says time is out when the plate umpire cleans the plate.

I'm just trying to envision a runner "sneaking" a steal of 2B or 3B while the plate umpire is brushing the plate, action was otherwise relaxed, and then just before ejecting the defensive coach your explanation is "yes, I was ***-to-field, but I never called time and my partner was still watching."

You may think it's a "good thing" that you're allowing bases to be run, outs to be recorded - hey do you still call balks while brushing the plate, maybe using your brown eye? - but to me it's a practice that is simply an endorsement of bush league baseball. No thanks.

Brown eye. Dammit Hensley, I almost spit coffee all over my laptop.

[Tim C]

Since I know bobbybanaduck personally . . . since I trust his word completely . . . since I know that his sources to minor league baseball are very good . . . I accept what he says.

Chris my apology for getting on your butt.

BTW, we will still train in our area (while we're not San Diego we have very good umpires) to ALWAYS call time when cleaning the plate.

It is neither, in my opinon, inappropriate or game delaying.

Regards,

[ozzy6900]

I'm not arguing with bobbybanaduck but the guys here in the Eastern League all seem to stand to the side of the plate and wait for the action to subside, then the PU raises his hands, turns and cleans the plate. It may or not be a rule, no make that an understanding, but that's what I see most of them do. As for myself, either I call TIME to clean the plate or wait for a dead ball situation to do it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I realize that Proschool and PBUC may not be as prestigious as the SDCBUA, whatever the hell that is

If you don't know of this umpire association, why don't you use some of your Mensa-level I.Q., and just Google SDCBUA to learn more about it. Your right, PBUC is probably not as prestigous. It certainly hasn't been in existence nearly as long, nor does it have the rich history that the SDCBUA has.

I know you are totally anal, Garth, but it really is unneccesary to call Time when cleaning the plate.

Hensley, you might call games with your brown eye, butt the rest of us don't. I believe that the base umpire would call those balks, pickoffs, steals, or whatever else could possibly occur during the 5-10 seconds it takes to clean the plate.

You people make it too hard.

Tee, I realize that you are a member of a fine group of umpires, and I never meant to imply in any way that San Diego umpires were any better than any others. Umpires are umpires.

If we all agreed on everything, it would sure be a boring forum.

[Chris_Hickman]

Originally Posted by PWL

This makes no sense. Either you do it all the time, or you do it none of the time.

Ok...There is a difference. W/ R3, you got a guy 90 feet from ya in a direct line to the plate. With no guy on 3rd, you have a greater response time to help/observe you partner if a runner takes off. It could get real ugly if you are dusting the dish and R3 decides to take off. You have a catcher to deal with etc.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

This makes no sense. Either you do it all the time, or you do it none of the time.

With a runner at third, especially a really fast jackrabbit, he may see the umpire cleaning the plate as an opportunity to try to steal home, the one base where the PU is responsible for the action. The PU would be in the way of any attempt to make a play on this runner, while at 1st, 2nd, or 3rd base, the base umpire(s) would be there to make calls.

Let's face it...different associations teach different things. I'm sure there are other associations in my area (there are about a dozen) who teach the umpires to call Time when cleaning the plate.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PWL

This makes no sense. Either you do it all the time, or you do it none of the time.

There are several mechanics that we have that depend on the position of the runners. IN SDS's group, this (calling, or not, time to brush the plate) is one of them.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

Ya... the schools also teach that with R2, R1 and R2, the base guy is to look over his shoulder during each pitch. Let me tell ya...that doesnt always happen..oh ya, I forget..the base guy has to be in a hands-on-knees position for every pick off play @ 1st!!! Good luck with that.

true, the over the shoulder peek is taught at the schools, and required by pbuc, but, only for the first year. once pbuc thinks you have a grasp of where the runners are, the tell you that you don't need to peek anymore.

also, pbuc does not require the hok (hands on knees) set for pickoffs. it's taught at the schools to get everybody to look the same and to try to bang into the heads of the students the concept of being square to the play.

back to the topic at hand of calling time to dust the dish... i do it if the situation warrants, and don't if it doesn't. imo, the act of turning my back on the field for 1.3 seconds is not enough to warrant me killing the ball. i have partners on the field watching what's going on. furthermore, i try not to clean the plate during live ball situations. wait for a foul ball, wait for time to be out already, whatever. this is not to say, however, that i won't call time if the thing gets completely covered and it's going to require more effort than a couple of quick sweeps.

edited to fix typos and define hok. sorry steve.