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Quote:

Originally Posted by tibear

Rich,

The rules states the pitcher must drop his hands to his sides, so I guess the phrase "separate his hands" is incorrect.

Around here if the pitcher steps off and throws directly to a base without dropping his hands to his side first, we call it a balk. As indicated, I guess we're going to have to re-evaluate this but I can hear everyone now, "That's not what the rulebook says and the pitcher does it to deceive the runner, so it's a balk".

I'll have to try the "show me in 8.05 where it would be a balk".

I suggest you acquire, and share with your association, the Jim Evans Pitching Regulations and Balks video, available at the Jim Evans Academy of Professional Umpiring website. It will correct this, and probably other, misconceptions about what is and isn't a balk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

I'm only talking about stepping back off the rubber, not stepping and throwing to a base. This is what was being showed in a meeting. Whatever they show, I try to go by. I thought perhaps it to be a little different than the OBR rule. Anyway, so many of the pitching rules are "compromised". I often work with people that have their own interpretations of what they will call a balk. They is why I have leaned to offer leeway on some of the things that are really balks, but a "don't do that" really works best. I feel sometimes it hasn't been called all year, so the pitcher doesn't know. I work with people that are good umpires, but they could careless about the subtleties of some rules.

I'm not sure what they are showing you at the meetings, but just for the record, here is what the rules say:

Windup Position: "After the pitcher has placed his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the plate, he has the right to change to the set position, or throw or feint to a base the same as that of any other fielder." (6-1-2)

Set Position: "After the pitcher has placed his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the plate, he then has the right to throw or feint to a base the same as that of any other fielder." (6-1-3)

The only possible interpretation is that he MAY (or may not, logically) throw or feint to a base. He is not required to do this. He can step backwards off the rubber with his pivot foot, and leave his free foot on the rubber, and just stand there like that all he wants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

Our first meeting is Dec. 4th if you want to take it up with them. I know what the rule book says. I just posed something that was brought up that way. I assumed that was what they were talking about. They fly through the meetings fairly fast. I will try to ask Monday after next as to what they were actually referring.

I have no intention of going to your meeting. I posted the rule for others to read, not just for you. Please don't take it personally. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

I just wanted it to be clear that what you had written in the following post was not correct (because you argued for a balk, which it's not), and that someone brand new didn't read it and believe it to be true:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

I had a situation like this in a game I was playing in a couple of years ago. FWIW, the non-pivot was mostly behind the rubber. The pitcher stepped on the mound with his pivot foot and then barely on with his non-pivot foot. He then stepped back and threw to first from the wind position. I argued for all it's worth that it was balk, but they said it was legal in our rule set. Whatever, that was?

To which BigUmp56 replied:

"Why was it a balk? Did he step back with the free foot or the pivot foot? Did he simulate his initial motion to pitch as he disengaged?"

What you described is not, and was not prior to the rules changes, a balk in any rule set, so why would you argue that it is a balk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

What a coincidence - my association's first meeting is December 4, too. TASO Dallas. If that's yours, look me up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

OK, I'm willing to be wrong on this one, but HUH?

Once he steps off with the PIVOT foot, since when do I care what he does with either his other foot OR his hands [as long as he's not simulating a pitching motion]?

Bob- help me out here, have I missed a memo or something?

Exactly. The separating his hands thing is a red herring, since the runner is watching the pitcher's pivot foot for his cue (s). The runner doesn't give a fig what the pitcher's hands are doing.....