The Rat Factor

[Canuck]

Call me a troll if you want - at least we can get it out of the way.

I like to lurk around discussion boards. It's a fun thing to do for an hour or so because they tend to demonstrate a whole range of human behaviour. Sociologists could perform fascinating studies just by observing what goes on at Internet message boards. A fascinating board is xoxohth.com, where stuck-up high school and college students discuss their greatness. One thing that I have learned in my surfing is that every board has trolls, big egos, and people like Tim C.

Last year I posted a legitimate message on this board. It was a very interesting question about baseball that could have led to some fascinating discussion. The thread received no chance because it did not directly relate to the practice of umpiring and because it related to a softball game. Following some brief periods of idiocy, I decided to delete the whole thread.

One thing I find quite astonishing is the attitude of some of the "Internet umpires" on this board and their use of the term "rat". Presumably this word relates to players and managers, but could justly be used to define any "non-umpires". This term is, to me, a disgusting way to treat those involved with the great game of baseball. This may just be my personal opinion, but isn't amateur baseball around for the players and, to a lateral extent, the fans. The game is not for the umpires. Without players, there would be no umpires. This is not necessarily the same the other way around. Without umpires, players would still find a way to play. What right does this community have to treat those whom the game is for as though they are some lesser species?

Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10. I would presume that you are all out there because of a love for the game, and for other altruistic reasons, and not to use the job as a way to stroke any ego you may have. With that in mind, why not learn everything their is to know about baseball?

Recently a poster went on a rampage about how they should be allowed to criticize managers when they made a bad strategy move. Did it ever occur to you that when a manager makes a mistake, it means nothing to the umpire? However, when an umpire makes a mistake, it could potentially mean a great deal to a manager? Let the fans criticize the managers.

Finally, I ask, how could an assistant coach not exist? They are people that exist on the baseball field that should be treated with respect. Is your status out there so high that this lowly rat does not deserve the time of day?

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Canuck

One thing I find quite astonishing is the attitude of some of the "Internet umpires" on this board and their use of the term "rat". Presumably this word relates to players and managers, but could justly be used to define any "non-umpires". This term is, to me, a disgusting way to treat those involved with the great game of baseball. This may just be my personal opinion, but isn't amateur baseball around for the players and, to a lateral extent, the fans. The game is not for the umpires. Without players, there would be no umpires. This is not necessarily the same the other way around. Without umpires, players would still find a way to play. What right does this community have to treat those whom the game is for as though they are some lesser species?

the term "rat" does not refer to another species. in fact, it has been shortened from the plural "rats" which is simply STAR backwards.

Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10. I would presume that you are all out there because of a love for the game, and for other altruistic reasons, and not to use the job as a way to stroke any ego you may have. With that in mind, why not learn everything their is to know about baseball?

scorekeeping has nothing to do with umpiring. the rules in sections 1-9 are confusing enough without having to delve into rule 10. that's for scorekeepers.

Recently a poster went on a rampage about how they should be allowed to criticize managers when they made a bad strategy move. Did it ever occur to you that when a manager makes a mistake, it means nothing to the umpire? However, when an umpire makes a mistake, it could potentially mean a great deal to a manager? Let the fans criticize the managers.

bottom 9, tie score. manager, coaching 3rd base, waves runner trying to score in from third and he is thrown out by 24 feet. game goes 421 innings. 'nuff said.

[Tim C]

Since I was mentioned by name I feel it my duty to be one of the first to respond:

Thanks for your points they are very interesting since they begin to define the difference in umpiring levels.

Canuck commented:

"One thing I find quite astonishing is the attitude of some of the "Internet umpires" on this board and their use of the term "rat"."

and added:

" . . . but isn't amateur baseball around for the players and, to a lateral extent, the fans. The game is not for the umpires."

I am not sure that these two points can be in the same paragraph.

I would guess that not many umpires here that "write" about rats have ever called one that to their face.

"Rat" could be considered an endearing term for some of the coaches/managers that I have worked over the years.

I am sorry to say that at all levels of play coaches/managers attempt to manipulate umpires and therefore the "rat" name will always stick.

Your second point about who the "game is for" is a little more muddled.

While I agree that the game is not "for" the umpires I will always intone the followng:

"If players and coaches/managers didn't lie and cheat you wouldn't need umpires."

Canuck went on and asks:

"Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10."

I am assuming that you have never attended a five week professional school. If you had you would understand that Rule 10 is NOT considered an umpire rule.

Many of us have, of course, scored games in an an official mannerat some time during our career but WE (the umpire) have no reason to know any of Rule 10.

I am not umpiring for any "love of the game" any, frankly I know as much about baseball as both I need to and want to. Your post seems to be quite condscending in nature but I allow that . . . it is your philosophy.

And finally Canuck asks:

"I ask, how could an assistant coach not exist? They are people that exist on the baseball field that should be treated with respect. Is your status out there so high that this lowly rat does not deserve the time of day?"

Again I can see that your training is not in upper level baseball in the US. The college umpires are TAUGHT "assistant coaches" don't exist. That concept is to make sure that head coaches/managers understand that THEY are the ONLY person allowed on the field to discuss anything with umpires.

Some of us take it farther than that (personally I wind up in about two conversations a year with a base coach that isn't game related -- other than that I don't speak to assistant coaches).

So as I read your post you have attempted to take some of us to task with how YOU THINK the game should be officiated. I can accept that.

Games of non-shaving aged players should be called in one fashion and for each level higher the rules and attitudes change.

In the previous thread about arrogance I tried my hardest to fulfill the feelings of the original poster. I tried to make sure there was no question of who the MOST arrogant poster on the umpire boards is . . . I accomplished just what I wanted and didn't even use smilies!

Canuck, there are several ways to umpire games -- if your way works for you, naive as it seems to me, then do that . . . you just won't change many of us that do it differently.

Regards,

[wadeintothem]

Hey, youre only a rat and a troll.

At least youre not a lowly Little League or even worse - softball umpire (like me), then you'd really feel the wrath of the omnipotent Tim C.




The coaches thing probably has to do with a few things:
1) worse than us umpires that refuse to learn to score keep (scorekeeping has nothing to do with what I do, nor do I care what the player/game stats are) are coaches that cannot pick up a rule book on the game they are pretending to TEACH.

2) On MB's we can tell the coaches what we are thinking. On the field, umpires let a LOT go by and certainly express very little opinion. We dont have to take your stupid crap when we arent on the field. You're standing behind the plate and an alleged "coach" screams "blue hands are part of the bat"... many things pass through your mind that you dont say. Here we just tell you what a moron you are. Thats the difference.

Regarding Assistant coaches - you can exist, just keep your mouth closed when it comes to the umpire. I'm not going to allow a 1st and 3rd base "snipe and gripe" team up of coach and asst coach vs PU. So one must be in check from start - that one is the assistant coach. It's about game control. You've obviously never been behind the plate with an idiot on your left AND right whimpering non stop, if you had - you would know why assistant coaches are in check. It gets old quick. If you want to be ALLOWED to speak, become a head coach.

You'll just delete this thread too probably as you are just sniveling, but I thought I'd waste some band width and respond a little.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Call me a troll if you want - at least we can get it out of the way.

I like to lurk around discussion boards. It's a fun thing to do for an hour or so because they tend to demonstrate a whole range of human behaviour. Sociologists could perform fascinating studies just by observing what goes on at Internet message boards. A fascinating board is xoxohth.com, where stuck-up high school and college students discuss their greatness. One thing that I have learned in my surfing is that every board has trolls, big egos, and people like Tim C.

Last year I posted a legitimate message on this board. It was a very interesting question about baseball that could have led to some fascinating discussion. The thread received no chance because it did not directly relate to the practice of umpiring and because it related to a softball game. Following some brief periods of idiocy, I decided to delete the whole thread.

One thing I find quite astonishing is the attitude of some of the "Internet umpires" on this board and their use of the term "rat". Presumably this word relates to players and managers, but could justly be used to define any "non-umpires". This term is, to me, a disgusting way to treat those involved with the great game of baseball. This may just be my personal opinion, but isn't amateur baseball around for the players and, to a lateral extent, the fans. The game is not for the umpires. Without players, there would be no umpires. This is not necessarily the same the other way around. Without umpires, players would still find a way to play. What right does this community have to treat those whom the game is for as though they are some lesser species?

Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10. I would presume that you are all out there because of a love for the game, and for other altruistic reasons, and not to use the job as a way to stroke any ego you may have. With that in mind, why not learn everything their is to know about baseball?

Recently a poster went on a rampage about how they should be allowed to criticize managers when they made a bad strategy move. Did it ever occur to you that when a manager makes a mistake, it means nothing to the umpire? However, when an umpire makes a mistake, it could potentially mean a great deal to a manager? Let the fans criticize the managers.

Finally, I ask, how could an assistant coach not exist? They are people that exist on the baseball field that should be treated with respect. Is your status out there so high that this lowly rat does not deserve the time of day?

Thank you for the input.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Call me a troll if you want - at least we can get it out of the way.

I like to lurk around discussion boards. It's a fun thing to do for an hour or so because they tend to demonstrate a whole range of human behaviour. Sociologists could perform fascinating studies just by observing what goes on at Internet message boards. A fascinating board is xoxohth.com, where stuck-up high school and college students discuss their greatness. One thing that I have learned in my surfing is that every board has trolls, big egos, and people like Tim C.

Last year I posted a legitimate message on this board. It was a very interesting question about baseball that could have led to some fascinating discussion. The thread received no chance because it did not directly relate to the practice of umpiring and because it related to a softball game. Following some brief periods of idiocy, I decided to delete the whole thread.

One thing I find quite astonishing is the attitude of some of the "Internet umpires" on this board and their use of the term "rat". Presumably this word relates to players and managers, but could justly be used to define any "non-umpires". This term is, to me, a disgusting way to treat those involved with the great game of baseball. This may just be my personal opinion, but isn't amateur baseball around for the players and, to a lateral extent, the fans. The game is not for the umpires. Without players, there would be no umpires. This is not necessarily the same the other way around. Without umpires, players would still find a way to play. What right does this community have to treat those whom the game is for as though they are some lesser species?

Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10. I would presume that you are all out there because of a love for the game, and for other altruistic reasons, and not to use the job as a way to stroke any ego you may have. With that in mind, why not learn everything their is to know about baseball?

Recently a poster went on a rampage about how they should be allowed to criticize managers when they made a bad strategy move. Did it ever occur to you that when a manager makes a mistake, it means nothing to the umpire? However, when an umpire makes a mistake, it could potentially mean a great deal to a manager? Let the fans criticize the managers.

Finally, I ask, how could an assistant coach not exist? They are people that exist on the baseball field that should be treated with respect. Is your status out there so high that this lowly rat does not deserve the time of day?

And, I'm sure you consider this post as being in the same vein as your last; in your words, "a very interesting question about baseball that could have led to some fascinating discussion. "

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Canuck

A fascinating board is xoxohth.com, where stuck-up high school and college students discuss their greatness.

"Nuff said.

[D-Man]

Just as you didn't generalize, I'll try not to as well.

Rat - derived from the rodent species first to jump off a sinking ship. Example, "Hey blue, how'ya doing. Don't worry about me, I never argue. Was an umpire myself, good buddy." 25 minutes later, "My guy's gotta have that pitch too! Both ways now!", "You're better than that, Blue! You gotta be in position for that one, it's not your call!." Then he is in your front porch telling you how you're making s*%t up and you'll never work a game here again, yada yada. On his way to the parking lot after getting run (probably for the third time this month) he's asking anyone who'll listen for the umpire's name so he can call the Commissioner.

Anyway, you get the picture. That's where the term RAT comes from.

T.C. knows his stuff (smooch). I don't umpire like him. I try to be more of a people person, but I'm not going to take any crap and I'm not going to let my partner take any either. You pay me to make unbised decisions NOT to help your team out, not to kiss your butt and absolutely not to hear disparaging, disrespectful remarks. I understand respect is a two way street. You do your job, I'll do mine.

If you think the game can go on without the umpires you are dillusional. Any game can be played without an official (not legally). Unfortunately, human nature is to do anything to get your way so you will lie, cheat, and steal to try and get your precious win. There will be fights, injuries, possible deaths. Even among the most gentlemanly, there will be one of those fictional "ties".
The defense will NOT think the tie goes to the runner then, I assure you.

There are ignorant and obstinate people everywhere and as T.C. himself has said, especially on internet message boards. Take a deep breath and relax. The reality is you will always have to play a second team out there. So will the other side. Deal with it.

Rat.

D

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Call me a troll if you want

SNIPPED

Why are you here? I'll get to the point. If you don't like us, leave. It's quite obvious that you don't want to join any discussions, you just want to pi$$ and moan. So let me give you what you deserve - phuck off!

[DG]

I had a brief discussion with a 1B coach today from Connecticut who said something about how warm and beautiful the weather was today and how cold it was back in Connecticut. I told him that this was a typical day in late October around here and he laughed. He existed, briefly.

Later, I had a close call on a a force at 2B that the assistant coach at 3B (from the other team) wanted to argue about. He didn't exist. He tried to talk to my partner when I wouldn't and my partner would not talk with him either. Head coach finally came out of the dugout and my partner and him had about a 10 second conversation and that was the end of it. It was an inning ending play so the conversation occured while the sides were changing.

Rats are rats when they want the cheese to themselves.

[LMan]

As some one so aptly said, "assistant coaches are there to pat players on the a** coming off the field and say 'good eye, Johnny'"

Dats about it.

[DG]

Originally Posted by LMan

As some one so aptly said, "assistant coaches are there to pat players on the a** coming off the field and say 'good eye, Johnny'"

Dats about it.

When I was a RAT, I expected my assistants to be very involved with practice and pre-game preparation, offer advice during the game either solicited or not, and coach 1B. I generally took 3B. I expected more from them than you do, but I did not expect them to have discussions with umpires, of which I was also one, on different fields, and we were pretty clear about that.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LMan

As some one so aptly said, "assistant coaches are there to pat players on the a** coming off the field and say 'good eye, Johnny'"

Dats about it.

Assistant coaches are there to say "turn left."

The more advanced ones are also there to drive the bus.

[umpduck11]

[QUOTE=Canuck

Another thing that fascinates me is the refusal of umpires to learn anything about scorekeeping, or the infamous rule 10. With that in mind, why not learn everything their is to know about baseball?

QUOTE]

I'd rather spend my time studying the parts of the rule book that impact
my ability to do my job properly. Also, I'd rather know rules 1 through 9
as thoroughly as possible, unlike a lot of the coaches I encounter.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Canuck

The thread received no chance because it did not directly relate to the practice of umpiring and because it related to a softball game. Following some brief periods of idiocy, I decided to delete the whole thread.

Ahh, the heart of the matter. You posted an irrelevant thread, it was not treated with the genuflection that you felt it deserved....so you have been harboring this perceived slight for a YEAR, just to come back and troll a bit and tell the board how to conduct business.


You need a life, bud.